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#84198 - 02/10/07 10:03 AM Re: few questions..... Fox trapping..... and DRAGS [Re: Asa Lenon]
Lugnut Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Berks County Pa.
Originally Posted By: Asa Lenon
Also, i've heard the question asked many times "what if they head up the road"? They seldom do this but when they do they generally leave the road within 100 feet or so. Ace


LOL, that was exactly what I was wondering but now you've answered it.

I have access to a 3,500 timber company holding in northern Pa. There are new clear cuts, large stands of mature timber and variuos age regens everywhere and the whole thing has lots of trails and two-tracks running through it. Been having limited success because I don't set on those roads where I know coyotes and bobcats are running because I worry about the loggers and pipe line guys coming through before I get there.

Drags sound like a perfect solution. Any suggestions on a good shape/size for a coyote drag?
_________________________
Eh...wot?

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#84234 - 02/10/07 10:20 AM Re: few questions..... Fox trapping..... and DRAGS [Re: Lugnut]
jk Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/27/06
Loc: Williamsport, Pa.
This is an excellent thread, and I also use Asa Lennons lures. Just one little thing to add. When making the drag out of rods make sure you add a small piece of rod bent in a "v" shape to the opposite end so the chain can't be wrapped on the hooks and then be dragged backwards, Mainly a coon thing.....jk Did you guys follow what I tried to say?
_________________________
Whats supposed to be ain't always is. PTA life #503, NTA life #4187

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#84261 - 02/10/07 10:29 AM Re: few questions..... Fox trapping..... and DRAGS [Re: Lugnut]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
Scout: It sounds like you are doing everything correctly. The only thing I can think of is the size trap you might be using. Trappers generally think of smaller traps as being more humane but I find it just the opposite. I used nothing but #3 and #4 traps attached to drags and extra chain for years with minimal foot damage and then tried some more modern smaller traps. I found the coyotes and bobcats both would fight the smaller traps a great deal more resulting in twisting and cutting into their feet. I still find no more damage using large regular jaw traps than one would expect with laminated or thick cast jaws.

Lugnut: For 90% of my traps I use a drag constructed of 3/8" round rod about 8" to 10" long and 7" to 8" wide. It is important for best trail marking ability to have the drag points bent outward in opposite directions about 1 1/2" away from the shank. Lesser amounts do not dig well and more than that can get the drag bounding when the animal is running resulting in less trail marking. Another important factor is to not make drag points too sharp as they will quickly spear leaves, small sticks, etc and clog up the drag so trail markings come to a halt. It is also important to use at least 6' of chain as lesser amounts will have the drag lifted when the animal is running resulting in poor markings. It is important to not use excessively heavy and three prong super drags along with excessively heavy or long chain when they are not needed. Small animals will not even pull the super drags out of the trap bed. When one catches a small fox or skunk they are still in view of passerbys therefore defeating one's purpose. I have always used 3 prong drags sparingly in locations where a problem might be specifically antisipated such as large farm fields and large clearcuts. Ace

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#84315 - 02/10/07 11:05 AM Re: few questions..... Fox trapping..... and DRAGS [Re: Asa Lenon]
jk Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/27/06
Loc: Williamsport, Pa.
Mr. Lennon questions: 1. Have you ever tried an 8 foot piece of metal fence post, the chain attached 3 feet from one end? 2. Lots of my own trapping is on State Forest Lands, middle aged trees, mostly hard woods 15, 20 to even 25 inch diameter. Very little underbrush with steep side hills, one can see 100 yards on the ground in most directions and twice that in many times. The ground is just rocks. How would you anchor/drag here? Thanks......jk
_________________________
Whats supposed to be ain't always is. PTA life #503, NTA life #4187

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#84511 - 02/10/07 12:57 PM Re: few questions..... Fox trapping..... and DRAGS [Re: jk]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
#1jk...I think the heavier, three prong drags will always leave a good trail to follow. I have never had any specific problem with entanglement in wooded but open brush free type areas. The drags always hook on something like roots, whatever or they get too close to a smaller tree. The 3 prong would surely dig in enough to catch on something before going too far as they will rip plants, etc right out of the ground. There are always exception to the rule such as one time I remember a two fox catch with both fox entangled along the woods edge. I also had a couple of sprung traps by cattle so I was remaking them before proceeding onward to the woods to take care of the two fox. All of a sudden one fox pulled loose and I couldn't believe my eyes as he headed on down through the woods non stop as far I could see without catching on anything. It ended up about a quarter mile. Believe me, that probably couldn't happen again in another 50 years! Ace

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#84529 - 02/10/07 01:08 PM Re: few questions..... Fox trapping..... and DRAGS [Re: Asa Lenon]
KYBOY Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: East, Kentucky
I use drags at least 75% of the time on land. I live in a very mountainous region of eastern,ky so my average distance traveled is about 15-25 feet from the set. I use around 6' to 8' of chain depending on the spot. I like to use drags on logging roads because it allows my catch to get off the road and out of sight. i make most of my own drags from 1/2" rebar. Heres a pic.

I also have some other heavy forged point drags Ill use if the area is a tad open.
_________________________
Deep in the heart of Appalachia....

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#84629 - 02/10/07 02:29 PM Re: few questions..... Fox trapping..... and DRAGS [Re: KYBOY]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
I can see KY Boy why animals seldom get over 15' to 25' with those hefty drags! Ace

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#84664 - 02/10/07 03:00 PM Re: few questions..... Fox trapping..... and DRAGS [Re: Asa Lenon]
victoria vixen Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/28/06
Loc: Bahamas
On drags, I see no one has mentioned the use of a good trapline dog. My drags, growing up, were always a notched rock or a seasoned log. Now that I can afford them, I like the old Wimberly "High Plains Plows" or the ones made by J.C. Connors. Both top notch. 8 ft. chain with heavy swivels.

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#84677 - 02/10/07 03:11 PM Re: few questions..... Fox trapping..... and DRAGS [Re: Asa Lenon]
KYBOY Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: East, Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Asa Lenon
I can see KY Boy why animals seldom get over 15' to 25' with those hefty drags! Ace

LOL, I know Ace. Good thing my Honda packs them for me
_________________________
Deep in the heart of Appalachia....

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#85183 - 02/10/07 08:26 PM Re: few questions..... Fox trapping..... and DRAGS [Re: trapper989]
Trapper Will Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/28/06
Loc: Missouri
I am going to bring this thread back up. This is why I like to use drags or I should say grapnels. I have two traps set about 100 yds. from the house in my woods. Here's what I got today and I had the trap on a drag. It didn't go over 20 to 25ft. before hanging up solid. I took some pictures of the drag entanglement too. Here are the pictures.

Here's the catch picture.


Here's the drag hung up, I moved the leaves off for the picture.



Here's the other part of the drag setup, you can see he was not going anywhere.

_________________________
Member: NTA, MTA, NRA

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#85199 - 02/10/07 08:35 PM Re: few questions..... Fox trapping..... and DRAGS [Re: Trapper Will]
KYBOY Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: East, Kentucky
Ill add another pic, red on a drag.
_________________________
Deep in the heart of Appalachia....

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#88202 - 02/12/07 07:54 PM Re: few questions..... Fox trapping..... and DRAGS [Re: TexA 68 & going]
270Jake Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Michigan
I think drags and grapples could have a place in almost every land trapper's line especially those who trap public land and near roads, trails, etc.

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#97228 - 02/18/07 01:17 PM Re: few questions..... Fox trapping..... and DRAGS [Re: Asa Lenon]
Lugnut Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Berks County Pa.
So I'm assuming that the drag and chain are buried? When making a flat set in the middle of a logging road for example, isn't that a lot of digging and disturbing of dirt? Or do you just camouflage everything with leaves, grass and/or other debris? I realize it doesn't make much difference for fox but what about coyote?
_________________________
Eh...wot?

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#97256 - 02/18/07 01:29 PM Re: few questions..... Fox trapping..... and DRAGS [Re: Lugnut]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
Yes, drag and chain are buried in the bed underneath the trap. When I make sets in the center of two track roads the only important aspect is the set not being readily recognizable to passerbys. I make sets with just a small mouse sized hole and the set camouflaged. One has to use drags that are not so heavy that skunks won't be able to pull the drag into the brush. As i've said before, one can overdo drags and defeat their purpose of being able to set in the edges of roads, etc. Nevr place a heavy 3 prong grapple in the roads edge or skunks will be spraying passerbys. Ace

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#97279 - 02/18/07 01:49 PM Re: few questions..... Fox trapping..... and DRAGS [Re: Asa Lenon]
nycoyoteman Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/09/07
Loc: Finger Lakes NY
As Asa said as long as there is something in every direction to tangle in drags are awsome. I used to do all my trapping on public forest land and used alot of grapples, I could set along a trail and my catch would be hidden nearby, even coyotes didn't get far. But I have since moved to farm country and no longer use grapples they just wouldn't be practical in open fields. In either case I think it is much faster and easier to make a set with a cable stake and a short chain then to bury six foot of chain and a grapple unless trapping sand. But there is probably a situation on every line where a grapple would work well.

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#97518 - 02/18/07 05:06 PM Re: few questions..... Fox trapping..... and DRAGS [Re: nycoyoteman]
arg1 Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/06/07
Loc: northeast kentucky
Asa, when you say you bury the chain and drag, do you bed it and then bed the trap on top? If so, how deep of a hole is typically required?

Barry
_________________________
If at first you don't succeed, ask someone on Tman

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#101114 - 02/20/07 05:54 PM Re: few questions..... Fox trapping..... and DRAGS [Re: arg1]
trapper4Christ Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/31/07
Loc: Lewis County, NY
Asa, Do you think the chain and grapple has to be buried to prevent spooking animals or is that just to prevent theft? Would it work fine if I just hid them in nearby brush, weeds, etc. Does 2/0 chain work fine for coyote drags or do they chew it up to much even on drags? Thanks a lot, David

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#101271 - 02/20/07 06:52 PM Re: few questions..... Fox trapping..... and DRAGS [Re: trapper4Christ]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
arg1 asked...
Asa, when you say you bury the chain and drag, do you bed it and then bed the trap on top? If so, how deep of a hole is typically required?

Yes, I dig the bed deep enough so that the traps sits on top of the chain and drag. I have never really thought about it but I would guess for a 2 prong grapple the trap bed would be dug an additional 3" or so deep. One buries the drag and then covers it completely with packed down dirt. Then the trap chain is carefully lowered into the bed while coiling it around and around. This is important because if the grapple point isn't covered completely a chain link while being pulled from the bed might snag the grapple point. When this happens one can kiss the trap and animal goodby unless they are really lucky. The chain coiled carefully prevents chain kinking while being pulled from the bed.

trapper4christ asked...
Asa, Do you think the chain and grapple has to be buried to prevent spooking animals or is that just to prevent theft? Would it work fine if I just hid them in nearby brush, weeds, etc.

I think burying the drag and chain underneath it is a good idea, a detail that will pay off in the long run when a wary canine shows up. There is nothing to it once one get the hang of it anyway, I wouldn't think of doing it any other way even if I was sure it wouldn't make a difference. Occasionally when I run into big rock or big roots i'll move and bury the drag and chain off to one side or the other of the trap bed. I have never found a place I couldn't get it buried that way.
As for chain, one should have the same weight chain they would use on a stake. Most animals don't fight much once they head into thick concealing cover but now and then one does. I've never had a chain chewed by a coyote other than tearing off the trap tags. Ace

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