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#4 Newhouse Square Pan over round #5852812
03/21/17 11:53 AM
03/21/17 11:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 351
Missouri
T
trapper48 Offline OP
trapper
trapper48  Offline OP
trapper
T

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 351
Missouri

Here are a couple pictures of two Newhouse #4 Square pans over round that were at Sidney, probably one of the toughest Newhouse's to find, the one on the top is a fake and the one on the bottom is an original. Take a close look at the lettering on the fake and you will see how some of the letters start to over lap and others run off at a slight angle and also the No. 4 is smaller than the original and the rivets in the pan of the fake are domed and stick up higher than the original. More pictures to follow.



Re: #4 Newhouse Square Pan over round [Re: trapper48] #5852824
03/21/17 12:03 PM
03/21/17 12:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,435
saskatchewan/canada
lots of mink Offline
trapper
lots of mink  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,435
saskatchewan/canada
Thanks for posting

Re: #4 Newhouse Square Pan over round [Re: trapper48] #5852828
03/21/17 12:05 PM
03/21/17 12:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 351
Missouri
T
trapper48 Offline OP
trapper
trapper48  Offline OP
trapper
T

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 351
Missouri



The pans were both the same size, but the fake was made out of metal about 2-2 1/2 times thicker than the original, the metal was even thicker than spring stock. The picture on the top is the original, the one on the bottom shows the original in the back ground and the fake in the front with the pan tilted at an angle to show the thickness of the square pan and also the rivets, the top picture of the original also shows the rivets and you can see how little they stick up above the pan.

Re: #4 Newhouse Square Pan over round [Re: trapper48] #5852918
03/21/17 01:42 PM
03/21/17 01:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,797
East OK & West AR
Okiecntry Offline
trapper
Okiecntry  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,797
East OK & West AR
Thanks for posting! Amazing that someone takes that much time and effort to make a fake. I know it is about the money but just makes you sick thinking that things like that are floating around.

Re: #4 Newhouse Square Pan over round [Re: trapper48] #5853023
03/21/17 04:29 PM
03/21/17 04:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,353
North Cass Co. Minnesota
DiggerDale Offline
trapper
DiggerDale  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,353
North Cass Co. Minnesota
The #4 square pan is a rare trap for sure. A guy from Missouri has one and it has the same trapper marks on the pan......

......Make my day Trapper48 and post all the Sydney pics you can.....Dale

Re: #4 Newhouse Square Pan over round [Re: trapper48] #5853145
03/21/17 07:00 PM
03/21/17 07:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,334
Missouri
N
Nhousecattrapper Offline
trapper
Nhousecattrapper  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,334
Missouri
Dale, you don't miss anything do you buddy. The Fake #4 Square over round I was told came from Vance, so that should tell you who made it. There was also a #3 & #4 Fake clutch trap and a fake #4 & 1/2 wolf trap wrench, and from what I was told, all came from the above mentioned. Sad when the greed sets in and people try to deceive others for profit. Buyer beware.


"PURVEYOR OF FINE ANTIQUTIES and RARE TRAPS". Member... MTA/CFM/NTA/NRA/NATCA #0620
Re: #4 Newhouse Square Pan over round [Re: lots of mink] #5853147
03/21/17 07:01 PM
03/21/17 07:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 373
Candor NY
B
Bruce1 Offline
trapper
Bruce1  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 373
Candor NY
Why was a square put over round in the first place?

Re: #4 Newhouse Square Pan over round [Re: trapper48] #5853153
03/21/17 07:04 PM
03/21/17 07:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,334
Missouri
N
Nhousecattrapper Offline
trapper
Nhousecattrapper  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,334
Missouri
The round pan underneath will have the arched United States Property on it. When OC lost the Govt contract to Gibbs, the Govt stamping had to be covered. Looks like it would have been easier and cheaper to just change pans rather than covering it.


"PURVEYOR OF FINE ANTIQUTIES and RARE TRAPS". Member... MTA/CFM/NTA/NRA/NATCA #0620
Re: #4 Newhouse Square Pan over round [Re: trapper48] #5853209
03/21/17 07:53 PM
03/21/17 07:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,353
North Cass Co. Minnesota
DiggerDale Offline
trapper
DiggerDale  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,353
North Cass Co. Minnesota
Wish I could have made the Sidney show. I've accumulated a few fakes and that #4 square pan would fit right in my "fake" collection.
Now if I can just find that guy that posted a pic of a #0 diamond......

Re: #4 Newhouse Square Pan over round [Re: DiggerDale] #5853290
03/21/17 08:43 PM
03/21/17 08:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 373
Candor NY
B
Bruce1 Offline
trapper
Bruce1  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 373
Candor NY
diamond is mine not for sale

Re: #4 Newhouse Square Pan over round [Re: Bruce1] #5853300
03/21/17 08:48 PM
03/21/17 08:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 373
Candor NY
B
Bruce1 Offline
trapper
Bruce1  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 373
Candor NY
Only problem with fakes,repos,replicas is that they may have been made up just for ones own collection and later get passed as real.You guys should write up an article for traps magazine on these square pans over round,education in our hobby means alot.imo

Re: #4 Newhouse Square Pan over round [Re: trapper48] #5854318
03/22/17 11:02 PM
03/22/17 11:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 953
Oswego, NY
C
crazy Eddy Offline
trapper
crazy Eddy  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 953
Oswego, NY
I like the fake one better. How much is it?

Re: #4 Newhouse Square Pan over round [Re: crazy Eddy] #5854575
03/23/17 10:49 AM
03/23/17 10:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 351
Missouri
T
trapper48 Offline OP
trapper
trapper48  Offline OP
trapper
T

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 351
Missouri
Originally Posted By: crazy Eddy
I like the fake one better. How much is it?


So, here lies the problem, with comments like this, you are creating the FAKE market and giving unscrupulous people [insert whatever or whoever's name you want] the market to create their crap to purposely deceive, only to make money for their own personal greed, they don't care about the history of the trap or to keep the collecting field pure, but again, they only care about themselves and with comment's like your's, your fueling their greedy fire for more crap to be created.

Re: #4 Newhouse Square Pan over round [Re: trapper48] #5854618
03/23/17 11:39 AM
03/23/17 11:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 24
MINNESOTA
O
ottertrap Offline
trapper
ottertrap  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 24
MINNESOTA
Well said Kevin !!!!

Re: #4 Newhouse Square Pan over round [Re: crazy Eddy] #5854622
03/23/17 11:42 AM
03/23/17 11:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 24
MINNESOTA
O
ottertrap Offline
trapper
ottertrap  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 24
MINNESOTA
Your one sick individual Crazy Eddy

Last edited by ottertrap; 03/26/17 10:05 AM. Reason: misunderstood
Re: #4 Newhouse Square Pan over round [Re: ottertrap] #5854636
03/23/17 12:07 PM
03/23/17 12:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 351
Missouri
T
trapper48 Offline OP
trapper
trapper48  Offline OP
trapper
T

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 351
Missouri
Originally Posted By: ottertrap
Your one sick individual

I'm one sick individual? For voicing my opinion?

Re: #4 Newhouse Square Pan over round [Re: trapper48] #5854726
03/23/17 01:23 PM
03/23/17 01:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,334
Missouri
N
Nhousecattrapper Offline
trapper
Nhousecattrapper  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,334
Missouri
Excellent post Kevin and 100% correct. I would assume that Ottertrap was referring to previous post, not yours. Guess if he wants to buy if for the $3500 it sold for at Sidney before the guy found out it was a fake, and gave it back to the seller, he can get it, and pay an exorbitant price for a 25 cent novelty item, and that is being extremely generous in even using a 25 cent valuation on it.


"PURVEYOR OF FINE ANTIQUTIES and RARE TRAPS". Member... MTA/CFM/NTA/NRA/NATCA #0620
Re: #4 Newhouse Square Pan over round [Re: crazy Eddy] #5854909
03/23/17 04:43 PM
03/23/17 04:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,353
North Cass Co. Minnesota
DiggerDale Offline
trapper
DiggerDale  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,353
North Cass Co. Minnesota
Originally Posted By: crazy Eddy
I like the fake one better. How much is it?

Interesting takes on such a few words. I read that as someone with a sense of humor.

I know there are fakes and cobbled stuff and I've paid some for my education. Just hard to believe a collector would spend that kind of cash on that #4 without a little homework.

Re: #4 Newhouse Square Pan over round [Re: trapper48] #5854960
03/23/17 05:47 PM
03/23/17 05:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 114
Arizona
ddfen2 Offline
trapper
ddfen2  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 114
Arizona
Great post Kevin,I am sure with this post on the fake 4 square pan you have helped and educated a lot of people on what to look for in the future. I wish we could put an end to the few greedy money hungry people that are ruining the enjoyment of trap collecting. But as in collecting of most things these fake,repo's, seem to show up. I would like to see more posts here, other sites and a spot in the North American Trap Collectors newsletter just on identifying fakes when they are found. This at least would help out the new collectors from getting burned and driving them from quiting trap collecting.Maybe even letting known names of person or persons making them when proved. Nothing worse than saving your hard earned money to buy a rare trap and later find out it is a fake. Thanks to you again Kevin and Bruce for all the help showing this FAKE.Can you post pictures of the fake clutch traps also if you can.

Re: #4 Newhouse Square Pan over round [Re: trapper48] #5855088
03/23/17 07:38 PM
03/23/17 07:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 616
S.W. Oregon,USA
S
snakecollector Offline
trapper
snakecollector  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 616
S.W. Oregon,USA
Here is another #4 square pan that was bought by an unsuspecting collector several years ago. If you look at the pan on this fake and the one above, you can see that they were made by the same person.




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