Let’s take the first year in the south on bobcat because the math is a little easier to work with…

So for our first year, we get a quota of 50 bobcat. After accounting for tribal harvest, that takes us to 46 bobcat that we want to harvest(23 First Season and 23 second season). So they take average harvest success(60%) to determine how many permits they issue. That means we give out 38 permits in first season and 38 in second season. I will admit for those 76 people that are lucky to draw a permit, quality of experience is high, but what about the other 1500 that applied? I guess they can catch them and get them tagged. Wait, that was only in the north that year. LOL

Guess how many cats we harvested that year? 38 cats. That means almost 25% of our quota was not utilized. Even our most conservative science service guy would agree that quota was conservative. After all, it was only that low because the hound and trappers were mad about the season framework so they punished each other, but that is for another day/time. See the important question that was never asked was, “how many cats do we really want to harvest?” See all the stakeholders on wolves have that figured out. We ain't leaving quota on the table.

So what would have that meant if we had used the same logic? Well, the quota would remain the same 46 bobcat, but instead of figuring a 60% success rate, we predetermine success ratio by increasing permits. I think the wolves were set at 10%. If we had used that same logic, we would have issued 230 permits for the first season and 230 permits for the second season. I think that is a 600 percent increase in permits. Sure, the season would have ended a sooner, but a lot more people would have been allowed to participate in it. Now assuming that southern zone didn’t get a quota increase, it would take over 20 years to draw a tag. My way, a trapper gets one every three years. The guy waiting 20 years has 120 bucks tied into his bobcat. My way, the guy has 18 bucks. Which experience do you want?

Now I will note the hound hunters will never agree to issuing this many permits in the second season, but doesn’t mean we shouldn’t push them on the first season if we truly want balance in harvest between our two groups. I also did the extreme to prove a point, but you could use 20% if you wanted a little longer season. All things have a trade off and I think most people fail to really understand how one lever impacts the other.

As a disclaimer, I did the math in my head and I type fast so you math gurus might want to check it.

I guess you are right then, because I did say those things. But it was made in reference to the quotas & the start of the the season. Basically forcing trappers to get out there and set traps & catch unprime fur before the season was closed in a particular zone do to the quota being reached within a few days.
Yeah, that's a great Experience.

Wouldn't you agree the actual number of wolves are higher than estimated, if it only takes trappers 3 days to fill the quota in certain zones? Common sense would certainly say so. The science data doesn't support the trend data if viewed this way. An increase in the quota would increase the permits & thus increase the experience.

600% more got to get out there and try. 30% more trappers took home a bobcat in that scenario. Guessing those are not going to be the ones complaining. The other scenario has the guys waiting 20 years just for the chance. We could all be dead by then. How we going to capture their experience? LOL

Now sure, we can always push for a later season. Didn't we do this very thing on wolves? The WTA worked to move the season back to First Saturday in November. They took a lot of heat from the guys in the north who just can't give up the front of the season. See, the guys in the north would prefer that they would get rid of that silly provision on the number of tags they gave out so they could have the long season, but then the time to draw a tag increases. They refuse to accept this very premise.

But see, you could go even farther and give all 1500 a tag. Let them go until they harvested quota. Season gets even shorter and the pressure increases to delay the start. MN has much better bobcat habitat, but their entire season is nearly half as long as the first of our two season. Not sure on current limits but I thought it was four cat tags per trapper and didn't start until around Thanksgiving, yet trappers account for 80-90% of their harvest. Everything has a trade off, but more importantly, it is the direction that you are going that is important.

Now you have taken us back to Fox Claw's comment. Once I get back from the CC Fur Harvest Committee meeting tomorrow I will throw up information for you Brian. Hopefully, Fox Claw can shed some more light on it.

Justin, we allow 5 cats per trapping license or any small game license sold in the entire state. Plus we allow any youth between the ages of 5 and 12 the same limit without a license.

Think of the potential tags that are out there!

Keep beating the QOE drum and keep letting the bureaucrats beating it and you'll have more of the same.

I should also emphasize that any non resident small game license holder is allowed 5 cats hunting.

Personally I'd take a shorter season and more permits any day of the week and twice on Sundays. You shouldnt be harvesting cats that early anyways. It's a disservice to the limited resource.

I have a question for you Wisconsin guys. I'm a Michigan guy that used to spend my summers in Oneida co. (Rhinelander) as a pup. I worked for an uncle there. I still have family there that have told me I have a standing invite to come shoot a wolf any time assuming I can draw a tag. My question is can I trap a wolf as a non-resident? Michigan no longer allows non-residents to trap/hunt any critter that has a quota......except wolves. Non-residents were allowed to hunt the one year we held a hunt(trapping wasn't allowed even if you were a resident). I would love to trap a wolf up there, and have no doubt my kin folk could put me on farms with wolves using them.

Guess we'll just have to go to Mn. That way I can get a tag. Actually 5.. I'm not wanting to trap for my cats anyway. I'll hunt them with dogs every time.
Like 49er. I would take the shorter season in exchange for more tags. Along with a later start date.

Obviously mn has far better habitat or a lot less trappers and hunters. How else could bobcats, otter, fisher , beavers... Well about every fur bearer expect muskrats and coon. Be able to withstand that type of pressure?

As far as shortening seasons, ur taking away opportunity. LET the MARKET DECIDE

Doesn't every resource have it's limits?

I expressly used the word LIMITED because I knew you would jump on me lol.

Rats, coon and even beaver aint cats when it comes to the biology of the species and you know it. It's disingenuous to even compare.

Same thing when it relates to the fur. An October early Nov cat in WI or MN is almost worthless, that same cat caught in January February will be worth 5 to 10 times as much, whether we are in an up market or down.

Can you say that about rats or coon?

To answer your last question. Not in this market.

To answer the question why you have less liberal seasons on those species is WI has better trappers.

O yea, that makes sense! Thanks Steve

Cept rats! Mn has the best rat trappers!!

You may be light years ahead of wi on tagged species. But ur far from perfect. How long is ur rat season again?

Well after looking up the WI season and the MN season on rats, using some long multiplication, subtraction and division, putting in a call to IBM to use Big Blue to make sure I was right using the calculus I did in my formula I come to the conclusion that your season was 6 days longer than ours last year.

Would I like to have those 6 days? You betcha! Would I like the have the 15 or 20 days more you used to have on the back end. Now we're talking! I wouldnt see near the same benefits as you up here though, I'd have to travel.

Ur comin around buddy.
Do mn beaver have multiple litters? I see that season goes on forever

We let the market decide the beaver harvest.

Has it ever gotten overdone?