Land Trapping Archive


Home ~ Mission Statement ~ Trap Talk ~ ADC Forum ~ Trap Shed ~ Trap Chat
Trapper Tips ~ Links ~ Gallery ~ Basic Sets ~ Convention Calendar ~ Trapper's Humor
Fur Buyers Directory ~ Trapper's Tales ~ Words From The Past ~ Legends ~ Archives~Lure Formulator Forum
~Catalog~

Page 7 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >
Topic Options
Hop to:
#527440 - 01/19/08 10:39 AM Re: Human Scent [Re: Asa Lenon]
CharlesKS Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS
 Originally Posted By: Asa Lenon
I don't agree with your philosophy either outdoorsaddict because it wouldn't apply in many places outside of Kansas. One had better "Dink around" as you put it with professional methods in some places and harvest every animal that passes a set if they want to rack up a respectable harvest. Coyote are not as thick as fleas in every area. Ace PS- I was just razzing Charles, no need to be rude and disrespectful to anyone.


just becasue theres more, dont make them easier to catch, and just becasue theres less, dont make them harder to catch...

just means you have more or less OPPERTUNITY...

a coyote is still a coyote.....

outdoorsaddict opinion was spot on...

you will waste more time and money dinkering around trying to boost your ego by trying to get every last coyote on a property.

Top
#527457 - 01/19/08 10:52 AM Re: Human Scent [Re: CharlesKS]
CharlesKS Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS
1n 1902, if one was to ask a regular joe, "will we ever send anyone to the moon"? theyd say no. theres no means of transportation.

in 1969, going to the moon was remarkable.

TIMES CHANGED..METHODS OF GETTING TO SPACE CHANGED

in 1960's, if one asked a trapper if you could catch a respectable amount of coyotes using "slipshod", "hasty" or DIFFERENT methods of trapping, theyd say NO.

in the 2000's....

TIMES HAVE CHANGED..METHODS have changed.

\:\)

Top
#527468 - 01/19/08 11:04 AM Re: Human Scent [Re: Jonathan]
Billfrank Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: TEXAS
 Originally Posted By: Jonathan
Forget the "books" and videos. Do your thing, practice and observe and tell yourself what works for you in your geography. End of the hunt!

Jonathan


Well said, do your thing, I think there is alot of "tunnel vision" happening with the being clean thing.When one is having problems with catching they seem to blame it on the human scent factor and that is not allways the case.

I believe coyotes are coyotes whether they live in the watermelon fields of Iowa (smile) or the west Texas plains.
One thing fer sure is human scent will provoke a reaction that triggers "trouble" in a yotes mind. Some people get so far off on the human scent factor that they cannot understand why they are having problems catching. In most cases it involves other issues such as off location or bait lure problems. I have always like to stand in middle ground with issues concerning scent control.

Although I dont always practice it, the least amount of human scent in the set "area" is the number one thing in my book.I have been with other trappers who will walk back and forth to their truck or 4-wheeler 4 or 5 times to get something they forgot. How much scent have they just laid down???

Get in with everything you need the first time and make the set and leave.With good basic sets and clean traps and the right lure and the least amount of disturbance you will have better catches.

Let the animal teach you..........

_________________________

Top
#527493 - 01/19/08 11:27 AM Re: Human Scent [Re: Billfrank]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
Good post Bill Frank! Ace

Top
#527534 - 01/19/08 12:03 PM Re: Human Scent [Re: Billfrank]
PaCaller Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/07
Loc: Riverside CA 37
I am going to put in my 2 cents with a few supporting facts.


The Facts
Canines have about 25 times more olfactory (smell) receptors than humans do. Canines can sense odors at concentrations nearly 100 million times lower than humans can. They can detect one drop of blood in five quarts of water!

The 2 cents

No matter what you do you will leave some odor at every set. It is just how much human scent is acceptable to canines. Each canine will be different and you will catch some with little or no odor control. But you will catch many more with strict odor control. In a perfect world the only scent I would leave would be the one that I placed there intentionally(lure, bait or urine).

Speed Dip

I would personally never use speed dip for canines. If I get gas on my hands it takes days for the smell to dissipate. Now how long, if ever, does it take for gas to dissipate out of speed dip for it to be undetectable to a canine? So why ad an unnatural smell to your set?

On the defense of speed dip user. Gas is not human odor and some canines may not make the direct connection between gas and human. Most likely they have come across the smell of gas before( around homes, farm lanes, and roads) so it is not foreign. But I am sure it will still deter a few canines.

I boil all my traps from the previous season. Then allow them to cool in the water. This avoid me pulling them up through the contaminated wax. The wax that was on the traps has all the smells from last seasons catch. After the wax hardens I remove the traps and Dye and wax as normal.

Gloves

I use rubber gloves when making a set. I remove the gloves and store them in my dry dirt bucket before getting any lure, bait or urine out. I do not want to get any odor on the gloves. If would I would contaminate the next trap I set with that odor. I use bare hands to place the bait, lure or urine. I only touch a small stick that goes down the dirt hole with lure on it. I also use a kneeling pad and rubber boots. The rubber boots are kept in the back of my truck and never go in the front, too many human odors there.

I heard of some trapper having success setting with bare hands. But how many canines avoided their sets? The addition of human odor will cause some avoidance. Maybe not forever but it may take a few days or more for the scent to dissipate to an acceptable level. I don't have all season to wait for my smells to dissipate so I take precautions.

Yes you can catch canines without taking every precaution out there. Your catches may not be best that they could have been if scent control measures would have been taken. I may seem a little anal with the measures I take but I have not had 1 dug up trap or any set avoidance that I could detect since I started it.

Top
#527552 - 01/19/08 12:15 PM Re: Human Scent [Re: Asa Lenon]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
Now hold on just a minute Asa. You have for literally years referred to many of the rest of us or our methods as slipshod, sloppy, fill in the blank. You can say you are attacking the method, but quite frankly I have heard enough of it.

Let's use some critical thinking skills and assess what has been said so far.

"Thats the problem up here in my country Lt Grey, the trappers who don't take excessive human and foreign scents into consideration mostly harvest nothing but pups. I trapped for 25 years during the Michigan bounty era. To bounty coyotes one had to take the body to the DNR office, make out papers showing the sex and age of the coyote plus the location the coyote was taken. These papers were piled up on the officers desk and were public knowledge for anyone who wanted to look through them. I always noted when looking over trappers bounty papers that the careless trappers I was familiar with had mostly all pups while the careful trappers I was familiar with had about 50% pups and 50% adults. The numbers for the careful clean trappers were also always way higher than those who were not clean and careful and that included the number of pups taken too. So even some pups were wary of too much odor. Ace"

Lets take a look at the statement. Yuo are saying that you were catching more adults then the other trappers because they were "careless" in thier methodology.

This is evidence of your completely close minded thinking.

You think for starters that you know how those trappers were operating, but I am guessing unless you rode with them, you are merely guessing.

Another thing, you are showing us with this statement that you first and foremost blame ALL on the scent issue. How do I know that? Because a guy with as many years in as you have should know that if he is going to compare his catch to another persons, MANY other variables factor in.

What type of lure or bait was the other trappers using?
What is thier level of experience compared to yours?
Are they on location? (experience)
Howmuch ground and time are they covering compared to you?
Is thier equipment up to par or are they only harvesting half of what they catch?
Do they know how to vary thier methods for the time of year? Or are they trying to fur trap summer coyotes?
Do they know how to den hunt or are they just hitting fall locations?

To compare piles of paper at a bounty office and present it here as being evidence that scent matters is very revealing to me.

I was just going to present my side without engaging you, but you can't always have it your way without being called on it once in a while.

"Professional"?? You are a professional lure maker, that's it. You try to help people on here but at the same time promote and sell your lures. I have no problem with that, I am sure you have excellent products. Do not try to portray your methods as professional because we will ask to see catch photos and fur sales slips.

I am not a professional either. But I have been around long enough to know the difference.

You start engaging Charles and Outdoorsaddict in a debate and brace yourself, cause they are actually trapping coyotes.
_________________________

Top
#527678 - 01/19/08 01:37 PM Re: Human Scent [Re: k9.]
3-N Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: SW MT
Give it a rest k9!
_________________________
"Successful trapping is grounded in the application of common horse sense."
Badlands Bill Jaborski

Top
#527864 - 01/19/08 04:06 PM Re: Human Scent [Re: 3-N]
CharlesKS Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS
i could fill a post on here with adult coyote pictures that would take 10 minutes to downlaod.

\:\)

Top
#527899 - 01/19/08 04:31 PM Re: Human Scent [Re: CharlesKS]
baseline
Unregistered

ttt

Top
#528021 - 01/19/08 05:38 PM Re: Human Scent [Re: ]
MChewk Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Northern Illinois
GOOD POSTS...LIKE JLORD MENTIONED ...MAKES YOU THINK.

Top
#528334 - 01/19/08 08:05 PM Re: Human Scent [Re: MChewk]
Calvin Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/12/07
Loc: South metro, MN
Some of us have to use methods such as Asa points out to catch coyotes in areas of lower populations. Maybe not a big deal if the yotes in your area are running around thick as mice.

Big numbers is a relative term. Last year I took Big numbers of muskrats (to some) with ease...WHY? because they were available to me in big numbers. Surely there are far better trappers than I out there that would struggle to take 1/10th the numbers I took last year in their area due to lower populations available...even if they worked harder than I did.
_________________________
The insane are running the asylum.

Top
#528488 - 01/19/08 08:58 PM Re: Human Scent [Re: Calvin]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
Agreed Calvin more coyotes = more opportunity to catch them. I am from Iowa and you and I are not dealing with high populations of coyotes, there are plenty around but they are not competing big time for food.

However in the past when this discussion comes up, it has been related to coyote behavior being different from one area to the next. It is represented that guys like me and the KS boys have coyotes just lining up to get into our traps. Don't we wish! Maybe I can get them just to jump in the back of the truck, or better yet have them just show up at the furbuyers for me and we will grade them on the hoof!

The point is, this always comes up as an excuse as to why one trapper's observations are different from many, many others. I have tried to understand that observation, and am confident that I do understand exactly what is going on.

Fact is, a KS coyote acts just like a MN coyote. He pees, he eats, he poops, he breeds, he hides during deer season and is bold in the off season. He encounters man in all forms, some that threatens him, and some that may actually be a food source. He may run from a man, but steal a gopher out of that man's gopher trap the next day.

My whole point has always been that being careful is not a bad thing if it makes a trapper feel better. As long as the trapper does not cast around looking for excuses when he has problems, and fail to understand what is truly going on.

It (worrying about human scent) only becomes a handicap when it becomes a catch all for trapline problems, and keeps the trapper from getting his hands on his real problems.

Have you been to Iowa Calvin? I have been through quite a bit of MN, and I think we deal with about the same pop of coyotes. Fact is, some times of the year (or weather conditions) no matter what you do, no matter what you don't do, the coyotes are just not interested in anything we throw at them no matter how clean we are.
_________________________

Top
#528542 - 01/19/08 09:17 PM Re: Human Scent [Re: k9.]
Fire Fly Guy Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Loc: New York
K-9, why don't you ask Paul Dobbins about trapping Coyotes in Michigan. I seem to remember in a previous discussion he mentioned they were certainely different then other populations he's trapped. Certainely his testimony would meet your criteria. How many licensed trappers are there in the state of Iowa and Kansas compared to Minesota or Michigan?

I can agree that sometimes worrying about sent control can take a young trapper off course. But I also know a good number of animals are missed when one becomes careless with sent control.

I think the best advice to any young trapper is to focus on a multitude of factors,scent control, location, time of year, travel corridors etc.

I am by no means an accomplished coyote trapper. However in the past year I have met alot of people trapping in my back yard that catch over 100 k-9's a year. I would have never thought it was possible. I also noticed how a good coyote trapper never runs around bragging about how many coyotes he's caught.

You and charles are certainely good trappers, at least in my book. I'm just wondering why some of the other big name trappers, ya know, the real k-9's guys aren't on these post's like you guys from Iowa and Kansas argueing about the effects of human scent. Makes a person wonder.


Edited by A.J. (01/19/08 09:48 PM)
_________________________
.

Top
#528599 - 01/19/08 09:44 PM Re: Human Scent [Re: Asa Lenon]
Snowpa Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/05/08
Loc: USA MN
Your scent the lure scent and the steel scent,Any one of these alone probably won't spook a coyote,Just put them together and watch em turn tail. Snowpa
_________________________
Never Confuse Stupid With Crazy

Top
#528655 - 01/19/08 09:59 PM Re: Human Scent [Re: Fire Fly Guy]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
Paul will chime in if he wants. Even of there is a difference, the advice in question is going to trappers all across the United States. I'm not even saying it is bad advice, I am saying that there is more to it than just that.

I don't know about numbers of trapping licenses per state, that could be a factor as far as trapping pressure is concerned, but it's only one factor. That's my whole point. Imagine coyote trapping being a big puzzle. There are many pieces, and a young trapper has to put as many pieces together as he can to see what the picture on the puzzle is. If he gets stuck on one piece, and never moves on to another, he never gets to see the picture.

The puzzle pieces could be
human scent
location
coyote behavior (would actually be a numberof pieces)
lure/bait
population dynamics
proper equipment
importance of windage
snaring
accessability
time of year
weather related problems
and on and on

You can be a trapper who sees the whole picture (or at least enough of the picture to identify it), or be a trapper who is stuck on one piece of the puzzle and refuses to see beyond it.

I am certainly not a big name trapper, never claim to be, never will be one. As you are probably eluding to, many of the good trappers are unknown and choose to be. Many of the big name trappers have also gone into the lure business or trapping supply business. They are not going to get into a heavy public discussion and tick off some of thier customers.

I have seen some very good coyote trappers come and go from this forum over the years, very accomplished ones (they would be considered big names). Pretty much all of them have fought this same fight. Many of them had nothing for sale, but were willing to call it like they saw it, when someone insisted on presenting coyote information that was contrary to thier experience.

I have nothing to sell, I just want good coyote knowledge. Many of you do not have the advantage of having been here long enough to have seen this issue discussed AT LENGTH by many, many coyote trappers who have forgotten more than I know about coyotes.
_________________________

Top
#528841 - 01/20/08 12:04 AM Re: Human Scent [Re: k9.]
MNcooner Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/20/07
Loc: MN, just north of Sodom
Thanks for talking guys.

It don't get interesting or educational until the fur starts flyin!
_________________________
Devoted Grubstake disciple

Follower of the gnome


Top
#528960 - 01/20/08 06:59 AM Re: Human Scent [Re: k9.]
Fire Fly Guy Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Loc: New York
 Originally Posted By: k9.

I have seen some very good coyote trappers come and go from this forum over the years, very accomplished ones (they would be considered big names). Pretty much all of them have fought this same fight. Many of them had nothing for sale, but were willing to call it like they saw it, when someone insisted on presenting coyote information that was contrary to thier experience.

I have nothing to sell, I just want good coyote knowledge. Many of you do not have the advantage of having been here long enough to have seen this issue discussed AT LENGTH by many, many coyote trappers who have forgotten more than I know about coyotes.



Some good points. There are alot of great trappers out there. As to the ones leaving this sight, to bad, the ones filling their show's are some self proclaimed experts who post more pictures of their equipment then traps. Then there's the kids and young adults who have next to no experience yet think there "cool".

My hat goes off to guys like charlesKS who work full time and work their tail off to actually get out there and put up a very respectable catch.
_________________________
.

Top
#529087 - 01/20/08 08:36 AM Re: Human Scent [Re: Fire Fly Guy]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
"Some good points. There are alot of great trappers out there. As to the ones leaving this sight, to bad, the ones filling their show's are some self proclaimed experts who post more pictures of their equipment then traps. Then there's the kids and young adults who have next to no experience yet think there "cool"."

That's BS AJ. I can only think of one guy who has posted a picture of his traps on here lately and if you are referring to him he is a hard working man and far from a self proclaimed expert. In fact, he has started a trend of putting video clips on here that have been an awesome addition to this forum. He has publically shown methodology time and time again, using some technology that some of us never thought of.

I am not an expert, but I have around 35 years of experience, I have never met the guy you seem to be referring to in person, but I DO think he is pretty cool.

I have seen people post a photo of one of thier sets on this forum, and later wish they hadn't because so many personalities are on here that they are criticized no matter what. If a fellow puts an idea or opinion on here he better be ready to talk about it in detail because someone is going to disagree with it. So putting a video on here trying different ideas is pretty awesome.

So where are your videos AJ? Jump into the mix. Show these young trappers your methods. If you arel ike me and do not know how to post one on here, let's see some photos of your sets, catches, etc.


Edited by k9. (01/20/08 09:06 AM)
_________________________

Top
#529195 - 01/20/08 09:17 AM Re: Human Scent [Re: k9.]
Fire Fly Guy Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Loc: New York
 Originally Posted By: k9.


That's BS AJ. I can only think of one guy who has posted a picture of his traps on here lately and if you are referring to him he is a hard working man and far from a self proclaimed expert. In fact, he has started a trend of putting video clips on here that have been an awesome addition to this forum. He has publically shown methodology time and time again, using some technology that some of us never thought of.

I am not an expert, but I have around 35 years of experience, I have never met the guy you seem to be referring to in person, but I DO think he is pretty cool.

I have seen people post a photo of one of thier sets on this forum, and later wish they hadn't because so many personalities are on here that they are criticized no matter what. If a fellow puts an idea or opinion on here he better be ready to talk about it in detail because someone is going to disagree with it. So putting a video on here trying different ideas is pretty awesome.

So where are your videos AJ? Jump into the mix. Show these young trappers your methods. If you arel ike me and do not know how to post one on here, let's see some photos of your sets, catches, etc.


I don't have any videos or pictures to post. I'm by no means am expert. Thought I made that clear.

Whom are you referring to?

Video's can be a great thing, but I think a person should know the degree of expertise of the person making them.

To many blind sheep willing to follow any kind of shepard on the internet.
_________________________
.

Top
#529201 - 01/20/08 09:20 AM Re: Human Scent [Re: Fire Fly Guy]
Andy S
Unregistered

Hey, IF you're talking about me..........

I'm 30 now, started when I was six. First fox at 7, and first coyote around age 13-14 I believe.

I'm NOT an expert, NEVER claimed to be anything of the sort.

BUT I've caught a few............

Top
Page 7 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >

Moderator:  tmrschessie