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Bat attic cleanout #5097959
06/25/15 12:10 PM
06/25/15 12:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 0
Southeastern Indiana
S
schindal Offline OP
trapper
schindal  Offline OP
trapper
S

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 0
Southeastern Indiana
I am not a Bat expert in any way, I mostly take care of outdoor animals such as Moles, Raccoons, Skunks and such. I have a neighbor who has bats in his attic. He has a company contracted to exclude the bats this fall but opted to do the cleanout and restoration himself and asked if I would help him. My question is about what you use to as a cleaner. He plans to buy a HEPA vacuum. The plan is to double dampen and then bag the affected insulation and then vacuum the area clean with the HEPA vacuum. I have read about a "fogger" cleaner used to fumigate the attic. I have also read about spraying on a cleaner and scrubbing. What type of fogging or cleaning solution do you use? Like I said, I have no experience with attic restoration or cleaning up feces, I am doing this to help my neighbor but I want to be sure we are doing it right.
thanks!

Re: Bat attic cleanout [Re: schindal] #5097968
06/25/15 12:19 PM
06/25/15 12:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 25
Michigan
DaveK Offline
trapper
DaveK  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 25
Michigan
It is a miserable job and won't go as planned. I'd rather stack hay in the barn for a week.

Re: Bat attic cleanout [Re: schindal] #5097986
06/25/15 12:32 PM
06/25/15 12:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,361
mequon, wisconsin
P
Paul Winkelmann Offline
trapper
Paul Winkelmann  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,361
mequon, wisconsin
It's really not that hard. All you need to do is tell your neighbor to call the company back and tell them to do the cleanup and

restoration too. See, now wasn't that easy?

Re: Bat attic cleanout [Re: schindal] #5098000
06/25/15 12:47 PM
06/25/15 12:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 25
Michigan
DaveK Offline
trapper
DaveK  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 25
Michigan
What happens when you mess it up...get hurt...fall through ceiling....get sick/bit (when you discover the exclusion didn't work)...burn house down...get heat stroke......get exposed to asbestos. Figure, the neighbor won't be any help and you will do it all. Did I miss anything?

Re: Bat attic cleanout [Re: DaveK] #5098016
06/25/15 01:02 PM
06/25/15 01:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 247
rhode island
R
ritrapper Offline
trapper
ritrapper  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 247
rhode island
Originally Posted By: DaveK
What happens when you mess it up...get hurt...fall through ceiling....get sick/bit (when you discover the exclusion didn't work)...burn house down...get heat stroke......get exposed to asbestos. Figure, the neighbor won't be any help and you will do it all. Did I miss anything?

And that's the fun part! LOL


Steve Rouleau
New England Wildlife

http://newildlifesolutions.com/
401-330-8168

Re: Bat attic cleanout [Re: schindal] #5098083
06/25/15 02:16 PM
06/25/15 02:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 0
Southeastern Indiana
S
schindal Offline OP
trapper
schindal  Offline OP
trapper
S

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 0
Southeastern Indiana
All very good points! lol Maybe I will have to re-think this a little. I still would like to know what cleaning solution you all use for the future. I have removed raccoons from chimneys and cleaned up the area with clorox solution but i am sure there is a comercial product that is better.

Re: Bat attic cleanout [Re: schindal] #5098155
06/25/15 03:28 PM
06/25/15 03:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 25
Michigan
DaveK Offline
trapper
DaveK  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 25
Michigan
You would have to ask yourself if chlorox kills raccoon roundworm and is labeled for that use.

Re: Bat attic cleanout [Re: schindal] #5098162
06/25/15 03:33 PM
06/25/15 03:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 749
Schenectady, NY
E
EatenByLimestone Offline
trapper
EatenByLimestone  Offline
trapper
E

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 749
Schenectady, NY

Re: Bat attic cleanout [Re: schindal] #5098226
06/25/15 04:29 PM
06/25/15 04:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,361
mequon, wisconsin
P
Paul Winkelmann Offline
trapper
Paul Winkelmann  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,361
mequon, wisconsin
Okay, my son P.J. does a pretty good number of clean-outs and restorations and he told me to tell you that you should use an

anti-microbial spray. ( Now if I went to college instead of him, I could tell you what that is )

Re: Bat attic cleanout [Re: schindal] #5098259
06/25/15 05:03 PM
06/25/15 05:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 32
OH
Eric Arnold Offline
trapper
Eric Arnold  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 32
OH
When I see questions or hear about fogging, red flags start popping up in my head. When most people think of fogging, they begin thinking of billowing smoke similar to what is seen with a smoke machine or mosquito fogging. In reality, what most companies are referring to isn't fogging at all, it is atomizing -hence the first red flag.

Now the question becomes, why is atomizing being done in the first place? If you look at Steri-Fab (one of the best cleaning agents available), you can't even run it through an atomizer. Instead, you need to spray it on the area that needs to be disinfected at a concentration that will leave the surface wet for a minimum of 10 minutes. The same is true with a good number of the mold killing agents available which generates the second red flag.

Clean outs can vary greatly between companies along with the belief of what needs to be done or left alone. First, how much guano is present and why does it need removed (the Center for Disease Control recommends NOT removing guano in certain situations so what makes this a "removal" job), third red flag. Second,what type of insulation is present (there are different removal methods for different types) and is there a possibility of asbestos, lead, copper, or zinc dust, fourth red flag. You mention that the neighbor plans to double dampen the insulation to which I have to say "Huh?" and that a HEPA vacuum will be used. Wetting down guano to prevent spore dispersal I understand (CDC recommends formaldehyde as the wetting agent), wetting down insulation I don't, fifth red flag.

There are different types of HEPA vacuums on the market so unless he's planning on spending a good amount on one, it most likely that he is planning on buying a shop vac with a HEPA filter, sixth red flag. A true HEPA vacuum will be a closed system with a minimum of three filtration points. The problem with them is that due to all of the filtration, they are normally rated for fine particulates only. In other words,they don't have the power to sweep up insulation. Even a regular shop vac with a collection bag will have problems vacuuming up insulation, especially if it can even be wetted down. This is why clean out companies spend thousands of dollars on insulation vacuums and then they do find cleaning with smaller vacuums.

Just to get on with this, knowing what type of respirator is needed and how to use it, body coverage requirements, bagging requirements, air flow containment and possible filtration (negative air flow), clean room, movement of contaminated materials and disposal are all part of this process and I didn't even touch on odor control, removal/repair of contaminated materials (aside from the insulation) or bat bugs.

Instead of suggesting that someone not try to do something, I find it better to give them enough information and/or point them in the correct direction so they can see what is truly required to do what they are considering doing. When it comes to clean outs, basic information can be found at CDC.gov when searching for histoplasmosis (look for the small business guide with respirators, it's about 80 some pages long), do some research on mold remediation (a good starting book is "The Homeowner's Guide to Mold"), and also look at some of the free training on the OSHA website or links looking for General Industry, Respirators, Industrial Hygiene, and Confined Space. While everything previously posted could happen to you or your neighbor, they sure as heck can also happen to a company that has been hired to perform the clean out. There are certain companies that will always be better than other companies simply because they put in the time, training, and practice to be better. If a half attic or more clean out is required, he is probably best off by hiring a company to get it done, but if he has a couple of pieces of bat guano here and there throughout the attic he most likely doesn't need to do anything with the attic.



Eric Arnold
Publishing Editor W.C.T. Magazine
Editor The Fur Taker Magazine
Re: Bat attic cleanout [Re: schindal] #5098349
06/25/15 06:43 PM
06/25/15 06:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 0
Southeastern Indiana
S
schindal Offline OP
trapper
schindal  Offline OP
trapper
S

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 0
Southeastern Indiana
WOW! WCT, that is the kind of information I need. I have not seen the attic yet so I am not sure of the damage. I would imagine there is not too much guano because the bats moved in this spring (so he says). It is a newer home (less than 15 years). Thanks for the information. Like I said, I do not do this kind of work, but I knew this site was informative and I could get some tips. Since my initial post I have done some more research on insulation removal and equipment and I am going to check out the attic and see how much damage there actually is. I just may take everyones advice and suggest he use the company to do the cleanout. Since this is a part time gig for me it sounds like I should stick with my moles and out of the houses!

Re: Bat attic cleanout [Re: Eric Arnold] #5099088
06/26/15 09:34 AM
06/26/15 09:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,995
1st civ. Div. Wood County Wi.
M
Mike Flick Offline
trapper
Mike Flick  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,995
1st civ. Div. Wood County Wi.
NICE WORK!
Originally Posted By: WCT
When I see questions or hear about fogging, red flags start popping up in my head. When most people think of fogging, they begin thinking of billowing smoke similar to what is seen with a smoke machine or mosquito fogging. In reality, what most companies are referring to isn't fogging at all, it is atomizing -hence the first red flag.

Now the question becomes, why is atomizing being done in the first place? If you look at Steri-Fab (one of the best cleaning agents available), you can't even run it through an atomizer. Instead, you need to spray it on the area that needs to be disinfected at a concentration that will leave the surface wet for a minimum of 10 minutes. The same is true with a good number of the mold killing agents available which generates the second red flag.

Clean outs can vary greatly between companies along with the belief of what needs to be done or left alone. First, how much guano is present and why does it need removed (the Center for Disease Control recommends NOT removing guano in certain situations so what makes this a "removal" job), third red flag. Second,what type of insulation is present (there are different removal methods for different types) and is there a possibility of asbestos, lead, copper, or zinc dust, fourth red flag. You mention that the neighbor plans to double dampen the insulation to which I have to say "Huh?" and that a HEPA vacuum will be used. Wetting down guano to prevent spore dispersal I understand (CDC recommends formaldehyde as the wetting agent), wetting down insulation I don't, fifth red flag.

There are different types of HEPA vacuums on the market so unless he's planning on spending a good amount on one, it most likely that he is planning on buying a shop vac with a HEPA filter, sixth red flag. A true HEPA vacuum will be a closed system with a minimum of three filtration points. The problem with them is that due to all of the filtration, they are normally rated for fine particulates only. In other words,they don't have the power to sweep up insulation. Even a regular shop vac with a collection bag will have problems vacuuming up insulation, especially if it can even be wetted down. This is why clean out companies spend thousands of dollars on insulation vacuums and then they do find cleaning with smaller vacuums.

Just to get on with this, knowing what type of respirator is needed and how to use it, body coverage requirements, bagging requirements, air flow containment and possible filtration (negative air flow), clean room, movement of contaminated materials and disposal are all part of this process and I didn't even touch on odor control, removal/repair of contaminated materials (aside from the insulation) or bat bugs.

Instead of suggesting that someone not try to do something, I find it better to give them enough information and/or point them in the correct direction so they can see what is truly required to do what they are considering doing. When it comes to clean outs, basic information can be found at CDC.gov when searching for histoplasmosis (look for the small business guide with respirators, it's about 80 some pages long), do some research on mold remediation (a good starting book is "The Homeowner's Guide to Mold"), and also look at some of the free training on the OSHA website or links looking for General Industry, Respirators, Industrial Hygiene, and Confined Space. While everything previously posted could happen to you or your neighbor, they sure as heck can also happen to a company that has been hired to perform the clean out. There are certain companies that will always be better than other companies simply because they put in the time, training, and practice to be better. If a half attic or more clean out is required, he is probably best off by hiring a company to get it done, but if he has a couple of pieces of bat guano here and there throughout the attic he most likely doesn't need to do anything with the attic.


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