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Inspection Fee? #5061732
05/26/15 08:55 PM
05/26/15 08:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,050
Mass
TDHP Offline OP
trapper
TDHP  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,050
Mass
I'm hoping this isn't the norm, maybe you company guys can clear this up for me. Received a call today from an older woman for noises "coming from the ceiling", this woman has used two companies in the last month for what is clearly a squirrel job considering when I got there and put the ladder up on the gable vent you could see where the squirrels had chewed through, but wasn't visible from the ground. The attic had blown insulation and you could clearly tell it's squirrels from the distance of the tracks. When I asked the woman to explain their "inspection" which came with a fee, I was baffled. Neither of the two companies used a ladder, one of the companies did a walk through and couldn't find any evidence of critter activity besides the mice holes along the foundation. When they dropped the attic stairs the guy stood on the top stair and shined a flash light in the attic, then came down and continued to walk around the home, so I'm told. The woman said they charged her an inspection fee and set mouse traps.

After four days the first company charged her 375 and caught 2 mice, when the woman called them back because the noise was still there, the earliest appointment they had for her was 6 days out, referred her to the second company who observed the house from the ground with just a walk around the house and a quick walk through as the woman explained to me, then told the woman "the house looks sound" and he couldn't see any entry points in the "structure". The guy told her it could be chipmunks, squirrels or bats. Charged her 150 for the inspection and gave her a quote for 280 + 75 a squirrel, which she declined but paid the 150. WOW! For my own curiosity, how does one perform an inspection without a ladder, or tell the customer what it could be without seeing evidence after an inspection? All the activity was on the opposite gable end of where the stairs were. For the most part both companies inspections were identical.


Smile, you're an expert!
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: Inspection Fee? [Re: TDHP] #5061741
05/26/15 09:00 PM
05/26/15 09:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 24
New Hampshire
Coondog6 Offline
trapper
Coondog6  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 24
New Hampshire
You know the answer. You can't. What they did wasn't an inspection. It was a rip off.


Chuck


The measure of a man is what he will do when he knows he won't get caught.

Coondog6
www.BestWayWildlife.com
Re: Inspection Fee? [Re: TDHP] #5061778
05/26/15 09:19 PM
05/26/15 09:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,361
mequon, wisconsin
P
Paul Winkelmann Offline
trapper
Paul Winkelmann  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,361
mequon, wisconsin
I would like to see the name of those companies in print. I don't really care what price you charge, but if you're going to charge

the Sunday plumber's price, at least fix the leak. This sounds comparable to Justin's "We'll get em after they're dead."

Re: Inspection Fee? [Re: TDHP] #5062090
05/27/15 12:53 AM
05/27/15 12:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,191
Mt. Olive, IL
R
Ron Scheller Offline
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Ron Scheller  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,191
Mt. Olive, IL
Originally Posted By: TDHP
I'm hoping this isn't the norm, maybe you company guys can clear this up for me.

Neither of the two companies used a ladder,

When they dropped the attic stairs the guy stood on the top stair and shined a flash light in the attic,

how does one perform an inspection without a ladder, or tell the customer what it could be without seeing evidence after an inspection?


I can clear it up for you. Neither company did an INSPECTION. I tell callers all the time.... If someone shows up to do an inspection and they don't have ladders... send them home and call someone who will do it right. If they can't even perform a proper inspection, what kind of work do you expect them to do?

I've even used my towable lift for some inspections. You CAN NOT provide an accurate (and fair) price quote without crawling over every inch of a structure in most cases.


Ron Scheller

Re: Inspection Fee? [Re: TDHP] #5062183
05/27/15 07:33 AM
05/27/15 07:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 32
OH
Eric Arnold Offline
trapper
Eric Arnold  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 32
OH
My first thought is that both of these companies are PCO companies. What a lot of WCO people don't realize is that it is common for PCO insurance companies to either prohibit ladder use or they have a limit on the ladder size they can use. This is why PCO companies that offer wildlife removal may have to create "sub" companies and have a separate insurance policy just for wildlife work.

Second thought is that this is only one side of the story. This could be 100% correct, it could be embellished, it could be slightly off or it could be right on. In my experience, the only reason why there would be such a price difference especially when referrals are involved is that for the first company it was viewed as an emergency call while the second company was a standard call. We also don't know what was negotiated/explained for service between the client and the companies. For instance, if they said they would come out and look around then set mouse traps/bait stations the client got exactly what the first company promised.

Third thought is that she got bad service. Since the second company quoted her for squirrels the next question turns into are they licensed for dealing with squirrels. We've had this issue in Ohio even before our license requirement as PCO's felt that since they had a license category for vertebrates from the Department of Ag, they didn't have to have the permit (now license) from Division of Wildlife (who is the regulatory authority for wild animals in Ohio). If they are licensed, then they should have all of the necessary equipment (i.e., traps and access equipment) with them when they did the inspection. Inspections are one of the constant focus points in the PCO field but they have a tendency to do them with the "sales" guy who then refers them to the service technicians (some companies will have the sales person set the job while others don't so it is a company by company difference).

After having said all of this, my guess would be that it is a combination of two or more of these thoughts with what happened. For most WCOs, ladder work is just a way to get the job done so we tend to think of it as the only way. The same can be said with PCOs and their use of pesticides. You can even go into other fields like chimney guys and roofers, that complain about improper chimney cap installation and ruining shingles. My point is that each industry will always have what they believe to be a "common sense" or proper way to do something.

From my perspective, I see what happened here being similar to going to the doctor to be referred to another. You still have to pay for the initial doctor's office visit as well as the referred doctor's fees. Then you have to pay for all of the tests that they both ran only to be told, yes there is a problem but it isn't bad enough to be concerned with so we just want to monitor it (see you in 3 to 6 months) or the standard, take these pills and if it doesn't help in a couple of days make another appointment (that you have to pay for once again).


Eric Arnold
Publishing Editor W.C.T. Magazine
Editor The Fur Taker Magazine
Re: Inspection Fee? [Re: TDHP] #5062334
05/27/15 10:04 AM
05/27/15 10:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,050
Mass
TDHP Offline OP
trapper
TDHP  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,050
Mass
WCT, reasonable point of view considering I hadn't spoke with either party who performed the work I can only go off what I was told by the homeowner who paid the fee, and I'm sure there's a reason. Makes it hard for the ones who play fair and actually try to fix the problem when customers have dealt with moonlighters or pest guys who don't normally handle many wildlife calls, if that's the case. That's why I deal with wildlife only, with the exception of rodents and refer pest calls out. I know some guys work off commission and gobble up every call they can, but some calls aren't straight forward and require some experience. IMO this job could've been handled properly if they put a ladder on the gable vent or actually went the distance of the attic. Great input from everyone, I appreciate it. Thank you!


Smile, you're an expert!
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: Inspection Fee? [Re: TDHP] #5062337
05/27/15 10:06 AM
05/27/15 10:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,361
mequon, wisconsin
P
Paul Winkelmann Offline
trapper
Paul Winkelmann  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,361
mequon, wisconsin
Eric made a great analogy with the doctor's fees and referrals. Just make sure you give your business card to every nurse and doctor

you run into. You would be surprised at how much more smoothly the doctor/patient relationship goes when there is also a ADC/doctor

relationship. Not only has my general practitioner met my family, but we have also met his. And you just know that your cardiologist

is not going to let anything happen to you when he's got a squirrel and raccoon problem!

Re: Inspection Fee? [Re: TDHP] #5062381
05/27/15 10:49 AM
05/27/15 10:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,050
Mass
TDHP Offline OP
trapper
TDHP  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,050
Mass
Hear ya loud and clear Paul.


Smile, you're an expert!
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: Inspection Fee? [Re: TDHP] #5062664
05/27/15 04:51 PM
05/27/15 04:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 32
OH
Eric Arnold Offline
trapper
Eric Arnold  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 32
OH
TDHP,

I understand with how you feel and agree with you. I am constantly referring people to an article on my website that has questions to ask potential service company's to help qualify them for bat work. When I hear a PCO company is scheduled for an inspection, I reinforce this by letting the prospect know that the legally required training on bats consists of only several pages in the testing materials so they should prepare themselves with questions to see how much the technician/company really knows on the subject.

What gets to me the most are some of the statements that are given to the prospects. Most of us have heard the "If you don't hire me, your family will die from rabies!" pitch, but I just had a new one this week. The technician (from a WCO company) told the prospect to do a bat watch as they didn't find any bats and for every bat they saw they needed to multiple it by 10 to get the true number of bats in the building.

I think it was great that the technician recommend a bat watch to define the problem, but the multiply by 10 thing drives me guano crazy. If that was true, there'd be no feeding/day roosts or bachelor roosts which have been scientifically proven to exist.


Eric Arnold
Publishing Editor W.C.T. Magazine
Editor The Fur Taker Magazine
Re: Inspection Fee? [Re: TDHP] #5062683
05/27/15 05:10 PM
05/27/15 05:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 111
NM
H
HD_Wildlife Offline
trapper
HD_Wildlife  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 111
NM
Ha! Multiply by 10 I think he was thinking about that old rat statement. Where you see 1 there are 10 or 100 or something like that more...

Even better is that bat guano in your attic is going to kill your family if you don't hire me for $X to remove it. I'm surprised you aren't already dead....

Re: Inspection Fee? [Re: TDHP] #5062734
05/27/15 06:17 PM
05/27/15 06:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,361
mequon, wisconsin
P
Paul Winkelmann Offline
trapper
Paul Winkelmann  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,361
mequon, wisconsin
I don't think that's funny at all. Every time I go to pay the repair bill on one of our vehicles, they multiply the cost by ten.

Re: Inspection Fee? [Re: TDHP] #5062834
05/27/15 07:57 PM
05/27/15 07:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 930
Tug Hill, New York
A
Albert Burns Offline
trapper
Albert Burns  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 930
Tug Hill, New York
"Even better is that bat guano in your attic is going to kill your family if you don't hire me for $X to remove it. I'm surprised you aren't already dead...."

One national chain pest control company is playing that game hard in our area right now. They get into the attic by doing mice inspections. Then they put the fear of god into the elderly, that the house is now toxic due to the bat guano.....one was a 20K estimate on a residential home, to remove the insulation and guano, sanitize, and re-install the new insulation..(no mention of sealing the home) we couldn't find enough of a sprinkling to fill the bottom of a small coffee cup.. Am I missing something here, or is this just borderline stealing ? I don't think like that, so it is hard to rationalize that type of selling as being anything near an ethical business practice.

Re: Inspection Fee? [Re: TDHP] #5062858
05/27/15 08:14 PM
05/27/15 08:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 111
NM
H
HD_Wildlife Offline
trapper
HD_Wildlife  Offline
trapper
H

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 111
NM
I'm with you Albert, and it is tantamount to stealing.

I just did a job where a colleague referred it to me, he knew little of bats but had heard from several people that if you have bats you'll need a clean out and if you don't the structure may be compromised. Along with the toxic aspects he had heard of from some local PCOs.

The type of house and region and description over the phone I knew they weren't going to have an attic guano problem but they we're concerned.

I said I'll look while I'm there excluding and provide you photos and video of the attic for your piece of mind.

Sure enough you couldn't fill a Pringles lid with what was on the floor that fell through the ridge louvre.

I have many cases where the folks are scaring the daylight a out of folks with the worst case scenario instead of the reality.

I think your example is akin to going to a mechanic for a spark plug and being sold a new engine. Or the shows we see with appliance repair where again they are sold a new one when the old one was fresh out of he box.

I think there should be more undercover shows, people are stealing and fear allows them to do it in our industry and in the PCO industry, fear sells and that is shameful of folks are using it as a tactic.

Re: Inspection Fee? [Re: TDHP] #5062888
05/27/15 08:40 PM
05/27/15 08:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,862
Northeast Wisconsin
N
NE Wildlife Offline
trapper
NE Wildlife  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,862
Northeast Wisconsin
When I was at the wisconsin pest control seminar
This winter they had a speaker that went on 20/20 for a
Show on bed bugs, he went to a house w/o bed bugs just to
double check there were no bed bugs, then they had a guy
Come in with a bedbug dog and he said the dog hit on 13
Spots in the house and he tried to sell the elderly woman
An expensive treatment for absolutely no reason except to steal.



Re: Inspection Fee? [Re: TDHP] #5062900
05/27/15 08:46 PM
05/27/15 08:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 930
Tug Hill, New York
A
Albert Burns Offline
trapper
Albert Burns  Offline
trapper
A

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 930
Tug Hill, New York
Every time we see this type of selling it is always a PCO company, and always the same large national chain. Never heard a complaint about any of the smaller owner/operator guys. I believe this type of business practice is just business as usual to them, and they continue to go unchecked.

Re: Inspection Fee? [Re: TDHP] #5062904
05/27/15 08:50 PM
05/27/15 08:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,361
mequon, wisconsin
P
Paul Winkelmann Offline
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Paul Winkelmann  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,361
mequon, wisconsin
Once again you guys come up with a very timely topic. Just last night I was talking to another WCO about the growing number of

terribly mismanaged Wildlife Control franchises. These were the people that I learned from and tried to duplicate. Now these older

guys are retiring and selling there companies to people who know nothing and expect to get rich over night. I've got news: If you're

an idiot, buying an established company isn't any better than starting you own. You can screw up either one in a matter of months.

Re: Inspection Fee? [Re: TDHP] #5063366
05/28/15 09:52 AM
05/28/15 09:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 32
OH
Eric Arnold Offline
trapper
Eric Arnold  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 32
OH
It happens with wildlife control companies as well. I've written about it in WCT Magazine and the worse one I'm aware of is a $20,000 clean out quote and they didn't even go into the attic to see if there was a problem, let alone get the dimensions and see what type of insulation had been installed.

In terms of unethical business practices I think it is hard to say. First, you have what is legal to do in the service area. General business rules (yes, all States have them) can be found on the States Attorney General site for most. In addition, you have the legal requirements for the municipality (there is one city in my service area where you need to go to the city and get a historic restoration license as well as follow those requirements for certain repair work in the downtown area) and any other regulator agency for the work you offer.

Next, you need to see if the person is actually trying to swindle the prospect (i.e., you need to hire me to do this), is just giving an option (i.e., if you'd like it done here's the cost), is following company procedure (i.e., any bat exclusion must have clean out quoted), just doesn't know any better (i.e., I heard that XYZ company get's thousands for this so I need to do it as well), or just don't care.

My major concern is the just don't care companies. In my experience, these are the companies that are just looking at the dollar signs. (I want to draw a distinction between them and those that don't know any better. The just don't know any better companies change what they are doing once they are educated. All of us at one time or another can fit this last definition. When I look back at some of my stuff starting out and what I thought/had been trained was correct only to find out later that it wasn't even close makes me cringe. Facts like bats are very dirty animals, bat guano is watery with a black spot in the middle, and you can fix a broken slate by gluing it back in place (to name a few of them) that I'm more than embarrassed by. But now I know better and do my best to make sure that others know as well.) The don't care companies won't get any training, do any research to see what is needed to legally offer and perform services, and will only invest in the cheapest equipment so they get the most profit.

I remember one case where I was an expert witness with histoplasmosis exposure. I'd inspected the structure 7 years earlier but never did any work on it. One of my questions to the opposing council was how they knew that the plaintiff had contracted histo from the bats as this was a farm house with outbuildings and barns holding more than one bird nest they had cleaned up. His response was that the company hired to remove the guano had two workers contract histo about 2 - 3 weeks later after removing (from precleaning images) about 1/2 cup of guano when they removed their respirators. Here is my response:

"So, a company that specializes in this type of work and has worked on multiple houses after this can not only pin point the exact infection location, but they also get infected themselves because they don't know enough about decontamination to make sure that they have properly cleaned themselves and their equipment?"

His was:

"Oh, well...Have you been hired by the opposing council?"
"Yes."
"Ok, well I'll talk with you later if I have any more questions."

Everyone can decide on their own if this was a just don't know or just don't care company. By the way, the suit was dropped shortly after my discussion with the lawyer.


Eric Arnold
Publishing Editor W.C.T. Magazine
Editor The Fur Taker Magazine
Re: Inspection Fee? [Re: Eric Arnold] #5063580
05/28/15 02:10 PM
05/28/15 02:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,050
Mass
TDHP Offline OP
trapper
TDHP  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,050
Mass
Originally Posted By: WCT
When I look back at some of my stuff starting out and what I thought/had been trained was correct only to find out later that it wasn't even close makes me cringe.


Everyone can relate to that especially before the internet came out. If more people could drop the "I know all" attitude and actually pick up what the successful and experienced guys are throwing down and now watching reruns from us newer guys, our industry would benefit greatly. One of the problems that get in the way is the NET, people google how to do something and then take on a job and fail miserably at it or worse give out bad information from a post they've read online somewhere about a virus that could spread by X and infect X by... you get the drift. In their mind they've just gotten their phd in WC. Google is a valuable tool don't get me wrong but you need people who actually experienced scenarios and demonstrated alternatives that work in the trapping field, and that is what lacks when it comes to the amount of new folks who fly by the seat of their pants. What happens when luck runs out and you need to rely on knowledge.... then the car goes bump!


Smile, you're an expert!
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: Inspection Fee? [Re: TDHP] #5072652
06/04/15 10:27 PM
06/04/15 10:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,050
Mass
TDHP Offline OP
trapper
TDHP  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,050
Mass
I'm going to start bringing popcorn and soda to calls that have been worked by a certain company. Individual couldn't get up in the attic so I guess he did the next best thing, stick his head and arm up in the attic and try to inspect off a six foot ladder. Week of trapping and no animal, the nice guy decided to seal up the soffit entry point. We all know what happens next, the call came in that raccoon's are trying to come through the walls and the noise is very loud. I live for hand removals! After the full inspection found mom and kits snuggled up in one of the bays on the gable end. I've been wrong in the past but how does this happen, if you can't get in the attic call the company and request that another operator handle the call.







Smile, you're an expert!
http://tdhpwildlifecontrol.webs.com/
Re: Inspection Fee? [Re: TDHP] #5072895
06/05/15 07:37 AM
06/05/15 07:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 233
wi/mn
T
travellintrapper Offline
trapper
travellintrapper  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 233
wi/mn
My main competition who according to pct top 100 did roughly $7,000,000 in business last year has their techs driving around with a single 24 ft ladder. Most of their business is bugs but they also do a lot of bat work. I know because I've done exclusions on many homes they have allegedly already done exclusions on.

Last edited by travellintrapper; 06/05/15 07:38 AM.
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