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#440823 - 12/02/07 12:50 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: inline50]
Gary Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 12915
Loc: Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
i agree ASA .... hard work has alot to do with it ...add to that a knowledge of the animals the person is targeting .... the amount of quality sets out in areas where there are target species .... knowing what to do if there are problem animals....learning to adapt to different situations ... and tryin new methods .... a good trapper is one that goes out and does the work, knows the animals, and puts in quality sets .... a great trapper is the one that does the above but THINKS and adjusts/experiments ..... i have learned a bunch over the years and one thing that i have learned is ... there are no set rules when trapping .... i try to encourage the young people that are just startin out .... but i dont tell them how to trap .... only tell them the ways that i have made catches .... if they ask me if a certain type set will work ... or i think a certain location will pay off .... i simply tell them that they should try it and see how it goes .... who am i to tell them that it wont work ... when i know that it very well may be the best set/location that is there where they are at .... no place is the same ...like we typed earlier .... what may work here, in KS, in IA, or MI may not work as good elsewhere .... i do believe that yotes do work sets more aggressive in high populated areas ... these yotes have to be more aggressive or they wouldnt make it so well .... i also believe that yotes are animal of habit and what one yote will do others will also to some degree .... there are always gonna be those that will do things a bit differently ... just like people they all have different personalities
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#440830 - 12/02/07 12:52 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: Aaron Proffitt]
Jonathan Offline
"Wilson"

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 7913
Loc: Northwestern New York(Elder)
It is a delight to see conflict resolution evolve with mature exchanges of chalk on this blackboard.

An individual's functional opinion, whether earned, or learned, from days or years of experience, need not be agreed with; however, the owner of that opinion does not deserve to have his/her personal human integrity attacked with verbal toxicity after making a civilized, instructional comment.

I can empathize with Asa and others who have been on the receiving end of this verbal abuse. They are allowed to snap in defense of their own dignity and time taken to teach from a heartfelt lesson plan.

Gary's dichotomy showing limited visibility at a set site photographically by comparison to those proponents of the more open visibility set site (myself included,) perfectly illustrates that it can be done both ways when you know what you are doing if trapping in the desert, farmland or mountains.

With that said, after 55 years of setting in the open, I am still learning and definitely will try moving into the lower visibility zones to see how well I can do in that corridor.

A thank you and round of applause to those of you experienced men who have made significant contributions to the managed differences of opinion filleted out here on this topic. It has been very educational for me to watch, look and listen during this bout before the bell rings.

Regards,

Jonathan
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Jonathan
Basic Camera Gear: Canon EOS 7D with Canon EF 10-20mm, EF 28-135mm and EF 100-400mm lenses; Dutch Hill tripod with Wimberly Gimbal head.



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#441040 - 12/02/07 04:06 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: Jonathan]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3740
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
You nailed it inline. Take all the info and see what works for you. Ideas and methods evolve over time, and improvement is just a natural thing.

Jonathan I enjoy your information, but to term my discussion with Asa as "verbal abuse" I think is a little short sighted for a thinker such as yourself. Asa and I have been disagreeing, yes, but I have not been verbally abusing him. Perhaps I am too callous to identify it when I see it. I am very capable of it, but I respect Paul's forum too much to do so to anyone.

I will be the first to say that I think people should take Asa's fathers methods, and give them a try. I have no doubt such trappers would be successful. However, no young or beginner trapper should conclude that there is only "one" way of doing things. Such short sightedness will surely handicap any trapper who wants to be serious about coyote trapping.

Nice pictures Gary.

I am headed to the fur buyers with a load of coyotes and coons. Will check in here later.

I find it interesting that I am percieved as always disagreeing, etc when one of these threads starts. Nothing could be further from the truth, and I hold no personal grudges out of the deal. Both sides of any discussion need to come to the table prepared for give and take. If they are not mentally prepared for reasonable debate, they should stay away from the table.

Sometimes in life we just have to agree to disagree. I am always willing to do so, quite frankly it means far more to others than it does to me. However, rather than just let it end in disagreement, little swipes keep being taken without naming me, and quite frankly that cheapens the debate.

That's too bad, cause there is a lot that can be learned by me, and other people reading in when people with coyotes hanging in the shed get to debating.
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#443150 - 12/03/07 08:38 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: k9.]
Brian Perlis Offline
trapper

Registered: 06/12/07
Posts: 154
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
As another beginner I have to say this is one of the best and most educational threads that I have read here in a long time!

A good educational debate only helps everyone here learn. If anyone got a bit 'miffed' during this thread please remember that you still did the rest of us a HUGE favor by explaining and justifying your reasoning.

I'm saving this thread in my personal notes! Thanks guys!
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Life Member: NRA,NTA, ATA ,Trout Unlimited
Blackwater Veteran. US Army Spouse.

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#443302 - 12/03/07 09:46 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: Brian Perlis]
Orlando Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/26/07
Posts: 225
Loc: North Central Kansas
This seems kind of like the old debate of "Great Taste" vs "Less Filling."
As one who made his first dirt hole set ever, just two weeks ago, I have been gleaning all the info possible from this web site. My son and I have caught 7 yotes to date with 6 sets using information from this site. I think this site is invaluable for a beginning trapper. I don't know who's right in this discussion. Probably both. I just know I'm going to sit on the sidelines and learn something that will help me get that 8th yote!
Thanks!
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Nature is reckless of the individual. Aldo Leupold.

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#443310 - 12/03/07 09:58 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: Brian Perlis]
Drifter Offline


Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 4531
Loc: Oakland, MS
Sometimes the chaff is hard to glean away when tempers get to flarring .

One thing I have found over the years to hold true is " Let the animals tell you " Differing populations as well as areas will all be part of the equation . To be successful at trapping any species one must pay the price of trying and failing . True that information gathered ahead can shorten the learnning curve but not make one a pro on the first time out .

Lure and bait being one variable that has never been used with the same result even in the same type sets by 2 differant trappers in the same area . I still puzzle over that one . My wife uses a mild lure with good results . I can't catch diddly with it . I use a louder lure and have good results but it doesn't work for her .

Drifter
_________________________
Ayn Rand: "We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."








Life member NTA , member Illinois and Ohio assoc .

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#443376 - 12/03/07 10:51 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: Drifter]
Calvin Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 2407
Loc: South metro, MN
Thank you Asa for the input on backings. I am no pro and was wondering more about it a few weeks ago and how it effected or may effect responses and why. You cleared this up for me and I will be adjusting my sets abit next year in hopes of an improved response. I don't have high coyote populations here so it may make a difference. I also understand the concerns from those who trap in farm country as tractors main purpose seems to be to hunt down your canine traps and squish the guts out of them. Sometimes you can not set out away from backing...BUT sometimes I do have that option and I will modify my approach abit now.

I (like many, surly) enjoy your posts and what your dad has written in the past. Many of us read them word for word and learn from them. Sometimes you may just be defending yourself but we still benefit from it, regardless. Be assured, it doesnt take much ability to figure out who on here is the real deal and the others who just like tooting their horn.

It doesn't seem to matter what you post here as someone will surely attempt to disprove your findings not matter what, or how minor, the observation is.
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The insane are running the asylum.

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#443391 - 12/03/07 11:06 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: Calvin]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3740
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
"Sometimes you may just be defending yourself but we still benefit from it, regardless. Be assured, it doesnt take much ability to figure out who on here is the real deal and the others who just like tooting their horn.

It doesn't seem to matter what you post here as someone will surely attempt to disprove your findings not matter what, or how minor, the observation is. "

Wow Calvin...that's a deep observation.
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#443393 - 12/03/07 11:08 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: k9.]
Gary Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 12915
Loc: Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
lol .... k9 why are ya respondin ?? YOU KNOW NUTHIN !!! ;\) \:\)
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Possums and fanged beaver Skeer Me frown

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#443396 - 12/03/07 11:11 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: Gary]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3740
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
Just got in from scraping some coon. All my sets have about an inch of ice on them and I'm about to go nuts. Not remaking anything as we have another front coming in, then will hit the sets with some dirt.

I don't claim to know much, but that conversation with photos attached was a heck of a lot deeper than horn tootin is.
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#443399 - 12/03/07 11:13 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: k9.]
Nick C
Unregistered


It would be INTERESTING to see the NUMBER of coyotes killed by the guys who are in the "know" in this thread in the past 10 or 15 years.

REALLY INTERESTING ???

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#443400 - 12/03/07 11:14 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: k9.]
Gary Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 12915
Loc: Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
those animals were relocated to take the pix ... ask charles and nick ... lmao
_________________________
Possums and fanged beaver Skeer Me frown

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#443409 - 12/03/07 11:22 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: Gary]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3740
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
They were nice pics Gary. I have always wanted to do the Children of the Corn thing but always have stayed on the edge. OUr coon, coyotes and fox just sleep right out there between the rows, and don't come out until the field gets harvested. Lots of rabbits and food in there, great cover, no reason to leave.

When we have late standing corn it always throws my catch off, until it gets picked then BOOM everything starts to click that I have set in the area.
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#443410 - 12/03/07 11:24 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: k9.]
Nick C
Unregistered


 Originally Posted By: k9.
OUr coon, coyotes and fox just sleep right out there between the rows, and don't come out until the field gets harvested. Lots of rabbits and food in there, great cover, no reason to leave.



So true!!

Combining corn this fall, I would kick up rabbit after rabbit each round (Not the same ones either, \:\) ) also tons of pheasants. Corn fields animals livlihoods in these parts. Especially the areas of Iowa that are treeless!

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#443416 - 12/03/07 11:30 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: ]
Gary Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 12915
Loc: Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
have ya ever went callin for canines on standin corn ?? if so ....where do MOST come from when hittin the calls ??
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#443420 - 12/03/07 11:32 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: Gary]
Nick C
Unregistered


I have a little bit. Only 2 coyotes I can think of though. Just randomly busted outta the corn field, loping to the call.

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#443421 - 12/03/07 11:32 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: Gary]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3740
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
No I have not, but I am betting they come from the corn, that would be my prediction unless it was contrary to windage.
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#443425 - 12/03/07 11:37 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: k9.]
Gary Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 12915
Loc: Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
yup ... sumtimes they just hang up in there ... wont leave it for sum reason ... lol
_________________________
Possums and fanged beaver Skeer Me frown

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#443426 - 12/03/07 11:37 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: k9.]
Fairchild #17 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 760
Loc: Millville, Pennsylvania
 Originally Posted By: k9.


I find it interesting that I am percieved as always disagreeing, from the truth,

Well done. However, " I before E except after C " -PERCEIVED- Jonathan, as much as I despise finding fault, is still the "English" king. Other than that it was very well written.
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Nowadays it just don't pay to be a good 'ol boy.

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#443431 - 12/03/07 11:43 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: Fairchild #17]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3740
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
Thanks. I had an old school teacher who I will never forget. She was a very mannish old gal, but a heart of gold. I always mispelled "separate".

She knew I was into trapping and creepy crawling things in the fifth grade (course I was the only 18 year old in fifth grade \:\) ) but anywho, she played on my interest in muskrats and nasty stuff. I always wanted to spell it "seperate" and she told me one day "there's a rat in there, and don't you forget it! Just put a rat in there!"

To this day every time I spell that word I think of her.

I am thinking that is the best tribute or reward a teacher can have.
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