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#438510 - 11/30/07 09:47 PM K-9 trap placement???
pass-thru Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Va

Is it better to place a k-9 trap right up against a brush pile, or 15 feet away to give it more room to feel safe?

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#438585 - 11/30/07 10:26 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: pass-thru]
pass-thru Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Va
ttt

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#438600 - 11/30/07 10:39 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: pass-thru]
stevenr Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/16/07
Loc: la
I like to give them a little room but you have to make sure that your backing is big enough that they don't work the set from the back

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#438753 - 12/01/07 06:18 AM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: stevenr]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
Good avvide from stevenr. When possible it is best to keep coyote and red fox set out away, say 25 feet or so from backings that obstruct their view from looking around in every direction before lowering their guard to investigate the set and lure. As stevenr stated, a smaller backing like a hump, rock, etc they can see over keeps the canine from possibly investigating from the backside. I have seen trappers who were trapping tight to large obstructions and catching nothing go to regular harvesting by moving their sets out a few feet into the open and adhering to this simple rule. Obstructions to veiwing do not seem to affect grey fox the same way from my limited experience with the grey fox, having moved into my region in recent years. Ace

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#438806 - 12/01/07 07:50 AM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: Asa Lenon]
CharlesKS Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS
okay, im not arguing with asa, only saying what works best for me.

I prefer, to place 2 sets, one at a large obsticle, and one away from it. for me, i get meter or awfully close to the same results. i dont care fro coyotes circling my sets. when givien the oppertunity, i will use a large backing. hopefully these pics will illustrtae this.

THE BACKING WAS THOSE TALL WEEDS, BUT THE COYOTE KNOCKED THEM DOWN.



THE BACKING WAS THE TALL GRASS, TRAP IN THE MOWED LANE


TALL WEEDS BACKING


MILO STUBBLE BACKING


ONE BACKING WAS A HIGH BANK, TALL WEEDS ON IT



basically i like two sets, one tall blocked backing, one in the open. i get alot of coyotes in the open to, but give them a choice, if they dont like one, they can have the other!

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#438831 - 12/01/07 08:21 AM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: CharlesKS]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
Pass thru do you think coyotes hunt that brush for rabbits, mice and other critters? That brush or other cover is an important part of a coyote's everyday life. He is very interested in what is going on in that brush pile, and it is attractive to him. Let the coyote tell you where to put the set.

I like Charles philosophy, try both and see for yourself which works.
_________________________

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#438888 - 12/01/07 09:20 AM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: k9.]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
k9 WROTE...Pass thru do you think coyotes hunt that brush for rabbits, mice and other critters? That brush or other cover is an important part of a coyote's everyday life. He is very interested in what is going on in that brush pile, and it is attractive to him. Let the coyote tell you where to put the set.

Hunting rabbits naturally on a day to day basis has little in common as an analogy to a canine coming across a little hole in the ground reeking of strange musks and fragrances and loud odors of human presence associate with that strange situation.
Just use you common sense Pass thru and keep an open mind to the possibility that what works in Iowa or Kansas may vary in Michigan and North Carolina. Ace

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#438897 - 12/01/07 09:25 AM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: Asa Lenon]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
Yes Pass Thru, keep an open mind and learn from the coyotes. They will tell you.
_________________________

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#438898 - 12/01/07 09:26 AM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: Asa Lenon]
wamp Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/25/06
Loc: indiana
I agree with Asa on this yes the smell is a big thing but on rabbits the smell turns into a sight and run thing.
_________________________
"Keep your traps free"

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#438903 - 12/01/07 09:29 AM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: Asa Lenon]
CharlesKS Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS
 Originally Posted By: Asa Lenon

Hunting rabbits naturally on a day to day basis has little in common as an analogy to a canine coming across a little hole in the ground reeking of strange musks and fragrances and loud odors of human presence associate with that strange situation.


i do not believe personally, that coyotes know the difference.

ive seen you say "strange odors, musks" before, but thats what your putting in YOUR luresm and everyone else is to, to ATTRACT the coyotes, but now you say it makes them wary? isnt that a contradiction in itself? whe i put down a lure or bait, im telling that coyote there is food there, come and get it. they do not know there is a trap in the ground.

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#438909 - 12/01/07 09:37 AM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: CharlesKS]
Aaron Proffitt Online   happy
trapper

Registered: 10/14/07
Loc: El Reno,Oklahoma
 Originally Posted By: CharlesKS
 Originally Posted By: Asa Lenon

Hunting rabbits naturally on a day to day basis has little in common as an analogy to a canine coming across a little hole in the ground reeking of strange musks and fragrances and loud odors of human presence associate with that strange situation.


i do not believe personally, that coyotes know the difference.

ive seen you say "strange odors, musks" before, but thats what your putting in YOUR luresm and everyone else is to, to ATTRACT the coyotes, but now you say it makes them wary? isnt that a contradiction in itself? whe i put down a lure or bait, im telling that coyote there is food there, come and get it. they do not know there is a trap in the ground.


I agree.One thing I've learned about 'yotes is they are SO subjective.
_________________________
Does a dyslexic,insomniac, agnostic lie awake at night wondering if there really is a Dog ?

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#438918 - 12/01/07 09:41 AM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: CharlesKS]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
A good lure, Lenon's or otherwise, makes the coyote dig and want it. I think once the lure/bait "has" them committed, they become pretty focused on it.

A coyote is an opportunist pure and simple. I think when he sees or smells an opportunity, he assesses any risk and then commits to the opportunity or shys away if something is not right.

Good lure = a fully committed coyote.

I have watched coyotes pounce on mice on several occasions. I think it was a combination of smell and sound in those cases, as it was obvious that the coyotes were focused on sound by watching thier ears.

This is why I can't go with the "wary" scenario when it comes to cover. A coyote is "aware" of his environment most of the time. I think if a coyote had stoplights showing his status, he is almost on "yellow" for caution. A rabbit or other food source takes him to "green" commit and go for it. The sight of a human, slam of a car door during hunting season, or even some unknowns can take him to "red". If something is going on in his world that he does not understand, and the wind isn't right he uses all his sense to assess. He wants to see, he wants to hear, and he wants to smell and usually circles to get the wind in his favor.

If he does not like what he sees, smells or hears, he runs for COVER which is what he calls home.

I had a huge coyote power out of a low lever Montgomery the other day. I topped the hill with my pickup and when he saw me, he gave it that extra lunge and away he goes. He ran straight into a low draw with extremely thick cover in it, cause that's where he calls HOME.
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#438922 - 12/01/07 09:46 AM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: k9.]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
Goin trapping boys and girls. Place nice so I have something to read when I get back \:\)
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#439053 - 12/01/07 11:08 AM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: k9.]
Gary Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/08/07
Loc: Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
im with charles on this one ... i catch yotes ALOT right on heavy cover .... i too set many doubles up ... one right on high/heavy/thick cover and the other further out many of the time .... i do catch a few fox AND yotes like that ....
_________________________
Possums and fanged beaver Skeer Me frown

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#439078 - 12/01/07 11:22 AM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: Gary]
Nick C
Unregistered

Just from tracking coyotes in MY area, they typically travel with the fences, and almost right on them. Maybe a row or 2 from the fence. Putting sets right under their nose is what I'm trying to do, so they almost have to trip over it to not see it.

In theory, I'd have to say that's their "safety zone". Anything alarming to them, a few hops and they're in cover, hidden. Also can smell/flush rabbits and pheasants when they're right there.

This location, I had to be RIGHT up against the cover, that's where the coyotes were.


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#439085 - 12/01/07 11:25 AM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: ]
Nick C
Unregistered

The pictures also shows, that in heavy agriculture areas, you will LOSE a TON of traps if you're not tucked up against the cover or fence.

Whether they're kniving anhydrous or chisel plowing or disking or just driving equipment. Tractor tires have no mercy.

Just my 2 cents. \:\)

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#439244 - 12/01/07 01:28 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: ]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
Those are a lot of nice pictures posted by Charles and Gary, thanks! However, with all due respect I don't see any obstructions to view in any one of the pictures, all I see is normal every day set locations, most are set with common sense right in the edge of a field with good visibility in every direction. Certainnly a few trees or cornstalks I see in the photos aren't what I call obstructed view. Also, no one ever said that one couldn't catch any canines by placing sets in any circumstances including a ten foot deep hole in the ground, what I mean to convey is that some canines are wary and one will receive a better set acceptance and a more desireable approach to the set if they set more out in the open when at all possible or practical. Here is an example what I am thinking about when I say obstruction. When I see where coyotes are running through a sand cut with high enbankments on each side of the road I generally have a choice of where to locate the trap. I can place it tight up against the high embankment or I can utilize the edges of the sand cut for a set backing where the embankment is down to two feet high so the animal can see clearly over it. Again, i'm not saying that I wouldn't catch any coyote if I placed the sets at the embankments highest point, its just that I will catch more and have them approach the set more directly and precisely if I make the sets where a possibly wary coyote feels more comfortable about lowering its head and guard. One can use their imagination on a multitude of other such total obstructions one may encounter when making a decision of just where to locate a set, when in doubt move the set out 25' away from a toatl obstruction for best results. Anyone who has followed my thought plain on the forum for the past 8 or 9 years will have noted that I always refer to each and every small detail being what seperates the average trapper from the legends and big number trappers I have known and heard about, there is no BIG secret to their successful harvesting, it was a combination of hard work and the small details they payed attention to. Keeping traps out in the open 25 feet or so from obstructions is one of those small details that add up total harvesting numbers one by one by one. Perhaps attention to any detail is of little significance if one has hypothetically 100 traps and 3000 coyotes in his trapping territory. Two out of every three passing coyotes could avoid their sets and they could potentially come home with 100 coyote anyway. Here in my region and I'm sure a majority of regions where coyote populations are modest and the food supply is overly abundant one will never become a legend, top furharvester, top ADC trapper or reach the magic 100 mark per season without paying attention to every little detail. The advice I offer about detail is the same advice I used to charge several hundred dollars a day for and create successful trappers overnight. One can take my advice or leave it, it free. Ace


Edited by Asa Lenon (12/01/07 01:30 PM)

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#439261 - 12/01/07 01:42 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: Asa Lenon]
tecks Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/06/07
Loc: Pa
Free is a good price

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#439267 - 12/01/07 01:44 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: Asa Lenon]
Gary Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/08/07
Loc: Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
asa this is just a serious question .... and dont take it the wrong way please ... but .... how can you really say that one way out produces another ....granted ... ya can take ya records and crunch numbers and come up with a percentage ... but ... if ya like any other trapper i know ... ya place out a few sets at each stop or more .... soooo .... back when ya were tryin the high backin deal .... and didnt catch as many compared to the lower backing .... whats to say that if ya didnt catch the yote or fox in the lower backing set that ya wouldnt have in the higher backing ?? i catch quite a few canines at trench type sets at diff locations .... i know where ya comin from ... and i agree that alot of the canines are VERY timid .... reason for alot of refusals on sets with high backing or low .... just their nature .... just wanna hear ya view
_________________________
Possums and fanged beaver Skeer Me frown

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#439269 - 12/01/07 01:47 PM Re: K-9 trap placement??? [Re: Gary]
Gary Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/08/07
Loc: Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
also ... it sounds like ya WONT use a high backed set at all these days .... i know the population of yotes has to have risen since ya first did these "studies" ... maybe they will work ya sets a lil more aggressive these days ..... i know that certain areas i have trapped it seems like they will try to hop over one another to work a set ... lol
_________________________
Possums and fanged beaver Skeer Me frown

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