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Re: *** Coyote Wars ! *** [Re: LT GREY] #4300126
02/08/14 10:33 AM
02/08/14 10:33 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,383
Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline OP
trapper
LT GREY  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,383
Central Ohio
Boone,
That's a very good point and why I advocate "wherever possible."
Coyotes like domestic dogs have different personalities.
They are quick learners and don't you know that all the bad things they learn, they learn from us !
Our job is to learn to become better callers and how we learn is by experience or, from the experience of others.

Of course you can do everything right and still have the wind against you.
Luck will play it's hand at times in favor of the coyote.
And if you have other callers in the area, coyotes get educated real fast.
One missed shot and they're spooked.

It isn't so much the type of call that's used but, how it's blown.
That said, certain calls that mimic the coyotes own voice has certainly been the end to many a coyote that wouldn't come to a
dying rabbit or a 'pup in distress' call.

It is to the callers advantage to learn how to use all of them and to know how to pick the right call, as much as the right stand.

Re: *** Coyote Wars ! *** [Re: LT GREY] #4300154
02/08/14 10:49 AM
02/08/14 10:49 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,968
Peoria County Illinois
Larry Baer Offline
trapper
Larry Baer  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,968
Peoria County Illinois
Here's one about the one that got away... I trap a valley several mile long and about a mile wide where I live. Right behind my house is a 2 acre hay field. It's a great spot. I usually get 6 to 10 coyotes off that field every fall and winter. I like it because I can see it out my window. Last fall I started seeing a big coyote track along the field lane. He was not working the sets I had out so I put in a dirthole for him. I always set to the right and this coyote came in from the left and worked the set but never stepped around. Only one track on the left. This went on for a week or two and I had to pull out. This fall I started early and hit it hard taking 3 pups and large female out that small hay field the first week. Big foot was there too and he started with the left handed thing again but this time I switched to the left and the next time trough he switched to the right. So I set two traps and his next trip trough he stayed about 18'' back from the traps and scratched and marked the set. Ok, game on. So picked up everything and went back about a week later with 5 new sets for him. Two were scent posts with no lure or scent, one was a step down dirt hole, one was a rub, and the last one was a dropping set. All were with lure I had not used here. The next trip trough he missed the trap at the rub and did not work the step down dirt hole and when he got to the dropping set he scratched around the jaws uncovering them and leaving the dirt alone on the pan. Then he left the scratches and his calling card. By now it had started getting very cold at night, down into the teens and the forecast was for freezing rain then below normal temps so I figured I would keep trying. I made sure all sets were ready for the weather. I put some good gland lure on one of the scent post sets and I put a trap where his front feet were when he scratched. I wish I could say I had him next time through but it did rain and it did rain and it did freeze and I haven't seen his track since. I did get several coyotes across the valley but I guess I won't know until the snow is gone and I can look for his track again.
I have found that most coyotes that dig are digging because I didn't do a good job bedding the trap. I'm 100% sure I did a great job bedding traps for this guy. He must have seen something somewhere else to even think something could be there. I tried a very deep dirthole for him and it sat for almost the whole season. The female I caught had pretty bad teeth and appeared beat up like she was older and had been though some scraps so I am assuming big foot is older too. None of the shenanigans started till after I caught the big female. Any other time I have caught a digger it has been a young female. I'm sure this is a big male. Usually the trap shy ones stay away and will not work a set but I'm sure I'll get this one. It's the only one I haven't so far. Usually you can pattern a specific coyote and get it the next time through.
For march trapping I like scent posts with pee or good gland lure, flat sets, and trail sets. Dirt holes work here but as the warmer weather comes things change and the coyotes get more territorial so the other sets work better. Coyotes are looking for or already have found their home for the pups that are coming. I like to howl using a female howl to locate first. The coyotes in this valley are always in the same general areas. If no answer with the female howl I use a male howl. I think that ground hog call would work well. When I find a den often times there are ground hog skulls around where the pups have played with them.
The male coyote will sleep close by the den - not in it. When you get close sometimes the male will see you and try to draw you of. If the brush is thick (when is it not)sometimes they will stand off where you can't see them and bark and growl at you. Sometimes his bed is easier to find than the den itself. You know you are close if you find his bed. When it's early march before the leaves are on you can set on a hill with binoculars and watch. Sometimes a farmer can tell you where a coyote has ben hanging around. They don't always answer the howl.
I shoot a Parker Hale .22 250 with 50 gr. Barnes blue bullets. Sometimes I carry a shotgun with BBs or larger shot. Most often it's #3 or #4 buck in a 12ga. I like open read calls. I have called and killed coyotes out to 498 yds. One night in the fall I called in three separate packs of coyotes in to one stand at the same time and they started fighting and barking at each other. It was pitch black out. I couldn't see them all but with all the growling and barking it sounded like a lot of coyotes. I doubt if there were more than a dozen all told. I never fired a shot. I just sat there listening and trying to count how many there were.
We have more coyotes than ever. Killing off the local coyotes brings in new ones. New coyotes don't know your game yet and as a rule can be caught easier but sometimes you get a tough one.


Just passin through
Re: *** Coyote Wars ! *** [Re: LT GREY] #4300156
02/08/14 10:52 AM
02/08/14 10:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,079
Mt
Y
yodeldog101 Offline
trapper
yodeldog101  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,079
Mt
Coyotes take an education very well for sure. A few weeks ago was a coyote Derby here...100 teams...200 people out calling ..the weekend was about as bad as could be with 40-70 mph winds. 31 dogs were killed...I bet there were alot that were given an education too...


Member NTA MTA NRA We live back in the woods ya see...my woman and the kids and the dogs and me....
Re: *** Coyote Wars ! *** [Re: LT GREY] #4300157
02/08/14 10:52 AM
02/08/14 10:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,968
Peoria County Illinois
Larry Baer Offline
trapper
Larry Baer  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,968
Peoria County Illinois
Lt Grey - I agree with the ''different personalities''. This can be a tough one for new callers


Just passin through
Re: *** Coyote Wars ! *** [Re: LT GREY] #4300249
02/08/14 11:42 AM
02/08/14 11:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3
Indiana
Y
Yaz Offline
trapper
Yaz  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3
Indiana
We cut and bale a lot of hay starting in late May. They absolutely LOVE to hunt a fresh cut hay field. We cut a lot after dark, and I have had pairs coyotes follow me in circles around the entire field until it is done. They will stay right at the front edge of the lights of the tractor hunting rabbits, mice and snakes that we are running out in front of us. Once the hay is cut, they will continue to work the field for days looking for dead and "pre-tenderized" treats, until we have the hay up and baled. When we are baling, you can see several places where they have dug for voles, and other critters. It would be PERFECT time to put some sets in.

Re: *** Coyote Wars ! *** [Re: LT GREY] #4300303
02/08/14 12:11 PM
02/08/14 12:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,079
Mt
Y
yodeldog101 Offline
trapper
yodeldog101  Offline
trapper
Y

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,079
Mt
Haha...Andy has killed a pile of them up there..me not nearly as many. Andys a coyote killing machine...I use to kill more. grin


Member NTA MTA NRA We live back in the woods ya see...my woman and the kids and the dogs and me....
Re: *** Coyote Wars ! *** [Re: LT GREY] #4300677
02/08/14 03:53 PM
02/08/14 03:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,947
st. lawrence county ny
C
CLT Offline
trapper
CLT  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,947
st. lawrence county ny
Originally Posted By: LT GREY
Anyone ever use a young woodchuck ?
Their squeal is unbelievable. Very high pitched.
They are prey to coyotes out here in the east.

Marmots, which are just a better dressed woodchuck, would also be one that would work well on western coyotes.

Does anyone make a copy of that sound ?

Lt I know that MFK calls makes a mouth call that allows you to do a woodchuck in distress whistle...


Re: *** Coyote Wars ! *** [Re: LT GREY] #4300702
02/08/14 04:03 PM
02/08/14 04:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,947
st. lawrence county ny
C
CLT Offline
trapper
CLT  Offline
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C

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,947
st. lawrence county ny
I'm not a "control trapper",fur trapper mainly but I have removed a few problem coyotes during summer months for friends and family.I used mainly blind sets or flat sets on sign.There is nothing worse than a coyote that has been educated.I will follow this thread,I don't know how much if anything I can add when it comes to summer control but I think this will be a decent educational thread...


Re: *** Coyote Wars ! *** [Re: LT GREY] #4300713
02/08/14 04:12 PM
02/08/14 04:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 17
SE Ohio
S
sempergumby Offline
trapper
sempergumby  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 17
SE Ohio
One thing that can be deadly on coyotes in the summer is setting a mouse nest set right under a round bale of hay. Coyotes always check out those bales of hay for mice. If you make it loom like a mouse nest has been pulled out, they will check that out for sure. Add some bedding material from the pet store that they cleaned out of the feeder mice cage and you will have a coyote for sure.



Last edited by sempergumby; 02/08/14 04:13 PM.
Re: *** Coyote Wars ! *** [Re: LT GREY] #4300898
02/08/14 05:40 PM
02/08/14 05:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 0
Eastern Utah
W
WallyH Offline
trapper
WallyH  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 0
Eastern Utah
On calling.. Find someone with a pack of coonhounds. Hang a coon in a tree, get the hounds treeing. Record these hounds. Hounds treeing in or near a den will completely blow a coyotes mind. Case in point. My buddy and I were coon hunting on a remote river bottom for a local Indian Tribe during late spring. Three hounds treeing a coon. We make it to the tree to see three coyotes picking at our hounds. My buddy unloaded his Ruger semi auto .22 the hounds treed harder thinking meat was dropping from the tree and the coyotes ran off FAST. As we were shining the tree looking for the coon, one of the coyotes came back!!!! Ran right back into the tree with us right there, trying to pick one of the hounds. Having been a caller since the late 70's I took note. I do have hounds treeing on a recording and have killed many, many spring/summer coyotes using it.

Having ran tree hounds all my life, it is a very very rare instance I have not at least seen where coyotes have been to my hounds while treeing be it lion, cat, coon and bear, spring, summer, winter or fall. Best kept calling secret there is.

This works especially good on warm summer nights on creek beds.


I don't know much, but what I do know I have memorized.
Re: *** Coyote Wars ! *** [Re: LT GREY] #4300987
02/08/14 06:31 PM
02/08/14 06:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 0
Eastern Utah
W
WallyH Offline
trapper
WallyH  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 0
Eastern Utah
Max was in his 80's when he befriended me as a kid trying to catch coyotes. He had trapped coyotes his entire life as did his father before him. Max trapped year round and in his later years only in the warm months as his health and stability could not handle winter anymore. I listened to Max a lot. He talked about blind sets the very most. He always said less is more when catching coyotes. I think scouting for travel patterns and spending time and thought into placing and blending a blind set is probably hard to beat any time, anywhere. Having said that Max was also kind of a mad scientist type personality as well and he was always fooling around with a new idea for catching coyotes. I do remember him saying more than once that he had found coyotes prefer strawberry jam to all other jams in the summer. I have never tried this because Max was also famous for his sense of humor and I always wondered if he was just enjoying the thought of me out there trying all of his mentionings lol. Knowing now that coyotes do prefer sweets and veggies during the later summer/early fall I might just set a few if nothing else, in his memory.

Max always had a dozen or so dogs around his place and he was forever dragging in bleached cow/horse bones. His dogs would drag em all over the place and chew em and play with them. He always said "best bait in the world right there" as we would watch his dogs playing with these bones. He taught me how a coyote will always at least visit where a cow or horse had died and bleached to nothing, even years later. He taught me to take a few of these dog slobbered bones and set them in and amongst the existing bones from the carcass. Many a wise old coyote has fallen for this.


I don't know much, but what I do know I have memorized.
Re: *** Coyote Wars ! *** [Re: LT GREY] #4301643
02/08/14 11:24 PM
02/08/14 11:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 259
South East Texas
Muddy Boots Offline
trapper
Muddy Boots  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 259
South East Texas
I know the thread is called "Coyote Wars" but the main theme is Predator Control, I understand that the laws in Texas are different than in other states meaning Coyotes and Bobcats are not considered furbearing animals, therefore Bobcats can be trapped year around, no most people will get all worked up about catching cats in the summer, because of its valuable fur, they would want to save them until fur trapping season, but when hunting lease owners and deer ranch owners show me pictures of cats on their game cameras crouching by feeders and such.

The land owner does not differentiate between Coyotes and Bobcats they are both "predators" and want them gone, and to be honest the land owner doesn't want to hear "Well I would like to wait until fall or winter before I will work on any cats", land owner don't want to hear that and at the same time he's thinking "I need help now and I want to protect my fawns when they start dropping, this guy ain't serious, he just want's to play". "I don't think this guy is for me", and this is what he'll say to you "I'll think about it and call you back" I know the nuisance guys knows what that means LOL

I trapped last summer for a high fence club, first time I "truly" trapped during the summer for control work, and I was successful, but I still need to learn more, allot more, although I learned lots of lessons out there in 100 degree heat LOL,

One thing I have never done is trap a cat in the summer, would your methods change? BTW I'm not much of a cat trapper to begin with.


Re: *** Coyote Wars ! *** [Re: LT GREY] #4301706
02/08/14 11:44 PM
02/08/14 11:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 0
Eastern Utah
W
WallyH Offline
trapper
WallyH  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 0
Eastern Utah
I have not targeted cats in the summer, but have sure enough pinched a few in coyote sets. I don't think it would change much though, curiosity being the one thing that doesn't change in cats.


I don't know much, but what I do know I have memorized.
Re: *** Coyote Wars ! *** [Re: LT GREY] #4301823
02/09/14 12:24 AM
02/09/14 12:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,383
Central Ohio
LT GREY Offline OP
trapper
LT GREY  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,383
Central Ohio
Yes, a well known fact that coyotes, like wolves, just hate dogs !

You will find many of the full time control trappers use dogs that are trained to agitate coyotes at den sites so that the caller can get a better shot.
Good dogs have a way of finding dens for you.
Their nose knows.
Usually even before they are close, one of the coyotes will show up and expose itself.
If near the den they most often start barking and often fighting the dogs.

The caller mostly will locate the den then sets up within rifle range and positions himself where he can not only get a good shot but also be concealed. Once settled in, the calling beginnings.
If everything goes right you should have one or both of the parents outside the den within a minute or so, defending the territory.
The dogs trained to spot the coyote(s) close in...
The coyotes being agitated and focused on the dogs and will howl, bark and even chase the dogs away from the den.
The dogs of course, run back toward the shooter, luring the coyote(s) ever closer.
If the coyote(s) turn back toward the den, the dogs charge in causing the coyote to repeat his defiant stance and again gives chase
to drive off the dogs from the den site.
At some point, the shooter has to make the shot with a rifle, killing one or both coyotes.

That of course, is the perfect set up.
You may however get a young pair won't fight or chase and that runs away from your dogs leaving the den behind.
If you don't get them on their return, you run the risk of the parents moving the pups during the night.
Coyotes often do move their pups several times during their early weeks anyway.

Timing is everything when using them method. A lot of time can be wasted setting up on already abandoned den sites.
If you're not someone who has good dogs that are trained, trapping, snaring or calling on trails leading to the denning site
can work in your favor.
However setting up too close to the den will cause the female to move the pups.
When the pups are old enough to move on their own, that changes things.
Often the old male will decoy your dogs off the den site.
Once that happens you run the risk of the female and the pups scattering like rain...

Now we have our work cut out for us as they may end up several miles away.
In the east, that can be very hard to locate if not darn near impossible !


LT

Re: *** Coyote Wars ! *** [Re: Larry Baer] #4301914
02/09/14 01:14 AM
02/09/14 01:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,355
SD
Boone Liane Offline
trapper
Boone Liane  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,355
SD
Originally Posted By: Creek Rat
Lt Grey - I agree with the ''different personalities''. This can be a tough one for new callers


This is why I always advocate new callers stay away from coyote sounds until they get a little more experience.

Everybody wants to go out and throw howls and barks out there, not knowing what they're saying to the coyotes.

Theres a fine line between an excited (yet non-aggressive) bark howl, and a warning or threat howl. Both mean entirely different things.

You can spook a lot of coyotes out saying the wrong thing to them. Likewise, knowing what kind of coyote youre talking to. Which all comes with experience and observation.

Saying the wrong thing to the wrong coyote can very easily result in them ending up in the next township real quick. Say the right thing to the right coyote, and they may be in your lap in no time.

Re: *** Coyote Wars ! *** [Re: LT GREY] #4302170
02/09/14 09:51 AM
02/09/14 09:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 36
N.W.GA
D
dixie306 Offline
trapper
dixie306  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 36
N.W.GA
My two cents worth from the deep South, coyotes here in Ga are considered non game species and can be trapped and hunted all year, in the spring and summer, hunting them with a fawn decoy and using a fawn distress call in an open area such as a food plot works well for me, I'll set up, blow the call three, four times around a 100 yards from the decoy, if a coyote doesn't show in 30 minutes or less, I move to a different location. Trapping in the spring and summer I go to mild, sweeter smelling lures and use grapes, watermelon, carrots and cantaloupes for bait, in the fall and winter, I go back to the louder lures at my scent post sets, I don't use baits very much but when I do, I sprinkle a little amdro around the bait hole and set the trap a little further back than usual

Re: *** Coyote Wars ! *** [Re: sempergumby] #4302236
02/09/14 10:33 AM
02/09/14 10:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,295
Northern MN
O
Osky Offline
trapper
Osky  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,295
Northern MN
Originally Posted By: sempergumby
You know, one thing I have always wanted to do was record a cow giving birth and put that on a foxpro! cool


It works juuuust fine.
I also feel that should I happen to miss a shot over it they may think twice before coming to an actual birth.


"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

Jabless in Minnesota

www.SureDockusa.com
Re: *** Coyote Wars ! *** [Re: dixie306] #4302283
02/09/14 11:04 AM
02/09/14 11:04 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 17
SE Ohio
S
sempergumby Offline
trapper
sempergumby  Offline
trapper
S

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 17
SE Ohio
Originally Posted By: dixie306
My two cents worth from the deep South, coyotes here in Ga are considered non game species and can be trapped and hunted all year, in the spring and summer, hunting them with a fawn decoy and using a fawn distress call in an open area such as a food plot works well for me, I'll set up, blow the call three, four times around a 100 yards from the decoy, if a coyote doesn't show in 30 minutes or less, I move to a different location. Trapping in the spring and summer I go to mild, sweeter smelling lures and use grapes, watermelon, carrots and cantaloupes for bait, in the fall and winter, I go back to the louder lures at my scent post sets, I don't use baits very much but when I do, I sprinkle a little amdro around the bait hole and set the trap a little further back than usual

Why are you only waiting 30 minutes? You might be educating a whole lot more coyotes than you are killing.

Re: *** Coyote Wars ! *** [Re: LT GREY] #4302295
02/09/14 11:09 AM
02/09/14 11:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,295
Northern MN
O
Osky Offline
trapper
Osky  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,295
Northern MN
I would like to add, for those who have the option, working them saddleback. I never work them anywhere near a vehicle to begin with. It seems in MT and WY where I work them a lot, they get very bold when I am on a horse. Maybe they are used to seeing the ranch hands working cows from them, and very few if any I know shoot from a saddle. I get a lot closer, even to where they challenge me if I have a dog at heel. Sometimes I think in the denning season they hear the horse, thinking it's a cow and come to investigate then the show is on.
I move on until I can dismount unseen, then set up and wait. Soft call, they'll more often than not give you a shot.
Biggest point to me of many good ones I have seen above here is finding the probable den areas ahead of time. I spend at least a day before I'm seriously hunting checking with the rancher on the terrain and where he first tends to see them in the afternoon and which way they are going/coming from. Same info for the morning. Also a lot of tracking. I do not get too far into these denning type areas until I am ready to work them, as stated above they are quick to change residency when disturbed, especially in spring.


"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

Jabless in Minnesota

www.SureDockusa.com
Re: *** Coyote Wars ! *** [Re: LT GREY] #4302313
02/09/14 11:16 AM
02/09/14 11:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,295
Northern MN
O
Osky Offline
trapper
Osky  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,295
Northern MN
Someone stated above a herd of cows came to the sickened calf call. That's how I know I do it right with the fawn distress sound, I end up with muley does trying to find me. I love that for their distraction to the coyotes coming in and their eyes. They will let a guy know in a quick hurry where a coyote is coming from. So will magpies.


"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

Jabless in Minnesota

www.SureDockusa.com
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