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#4019054 - 09/25/13 04:04 PM Temp to cause fur to prime.
Blunderbuss Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/03/12
Loc: California and Nevada
When showing market cattle at fairs many showmen will raise their steer with mist and fans blowing on the animals. The result is an animal with a thick coat of hair. Doesn't this prove that temp and climate will increase the heaviness of an animals fur?

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#4019062 - 09/25/13 04:09 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
stumper Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/06/12
Loc: mitchell,South Dakota
Pretty sure
Prime really has nothing to do with the heaviness of their coat. Its the leather that needs to prime up.

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#4019073 - 09/25/13 04:15 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
Alpha Backflow Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/29/10
Loc: Lake Co.IL
The prime in the leather has nothing to do with temp. Is the amount of day light.

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#4019082 - 09/25/13 04:19 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
Blunderbuss Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/03/12
Loc: California and Nevada
Sorry I meant fur heavyness not leather primness. My point is that it obviously works with cattle so why do people argue over fur being thicker on colder years.

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#4019087 - 09/25/13 04:21 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
bad karma Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Eastern Shore of Maryland
Originally Posted By: Blunderbuss
so why do people argue over fur being thicker on colder years.


Because they don't know any better.
_________________________
Never argue with a fool - they will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

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#4019108 - 09/25/13 04:33 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: stumper]
Dave Plueger Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/10/07
Loc: Iowa (where the tall corn grow...
Originally Posted By: stumper
Pretty sure
Prime really has nothing to do with the heaviness of their coat. Its the leather that needs to prime up.


Primeness includes the density, and length of the fur along with the thickness of the leather.

The shortening photo period is the primary reason for fur bearers to build leather and fur, but I've witnessed many times where the coon are better earlier when we have a lot of overcast, cool days in the fall.

I'd bet if you had a penned coon and kept the temp around 85 with 12 hrs of daylight and 12 of dark, than had another coon at the same photo period, but a temp of 30, the coon at the cooler temp would be further along than the coon at warmer temps after the same period of time.

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#4019127 - 09/25/13 04:41 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
KSpanky Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/30/11
Loc: KS
misting with a fan on cattle doesn't do anything but keep them cool.
_________________________
My posts are my personal opinion

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#4019131 - 09/25/13 04:43 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Alpha Backflow]
trapCzecher Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/12/10
Loc: Upper Peninsula of Michigan
Originally Posted By: Alpha Backflow
The prime in the leather has nothing to do with temp. Is the amount of day light.
_________________________
The sunsets are Superior in God's country.

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#4019137 - 09/25/13 04:45 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
160user Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/06/07
Loc: MN
So I can take a live July coon and put them in a fridge for 2 months and sell them as December coon? Now THAT sounds like a retirement plan!
_________________________
I buy junked and broken traps and trap parts.






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#4019149 - 09/25/13 04:56 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
Scott W. (Iowa) Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/08/08
Loc: Northeast Iowa
Southern coon get prime, they just don't have fur as thick or long as northern coon. Fur is either building up or breaking down. Photo period determines this. Temperature determines how much is built up.

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#4019155 - 09/25/13 05:03 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
Aaron Proffitt Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/14/07
Loc: El Reno,Oklahoma
Think about it for a minute , if a mammal were to wait for temp to change; it'd freeze to death. Oklahoma is a perfect example . You can be enjoying cool December or January day that requires just a windbreaker ...and have sub zero temps with a blasting north wind a fews day later.

However, the days always get shorter . Happens the same way for centuries.
_________________________
Does a dyslexic,insomniac, agnostic lie awake at night wondering if there really is a Dog ?

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#4019174 - 09/25/13 05:22 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
Bob Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/09/07
Loc: Eastern Mt, 25 yrs old
its the length of the day that primes them, has almost nothing to do with temp.
_________________________
"I have two guns, one for each of ya."

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#4019178 - 09/25/13 05:25 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: 160user]
ccoyote Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/10/09
Loc: benton cty, Minnesota
Originally Posted By: 160user
So I can take a live July coon and put them in a fridge for 2 months and sell them as December coon? Now THAT sounds like a retirement plan!
it should because it is usually pretty dark in the fridge.... wink

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#4019180 - 09/25/13 05:26 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: ccoyote]
160user Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/06/07
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: ccoyote
Originally Posted By: 160user
So I can take a live July coon and put them in a fridge for 2 months and sell them as December coon? Now THAT sounds like a retirement plan!
it should because it is usually pretty dark in the fridge.... wink


It is? Everytime I look in the fridge the little light comes on.
_________________________
I buy junked and broken traps and trap parts.






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#4019182 - 09/25/13 05:30 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
Alpha Backflow Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/29/10
Loc: Lake Co.IL
In your head or the fridge?

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#4019197 - 09/25/13 05:39 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
Law Dog Online   content
trapper

Registered: 12/11/10
Loc: Central, SD
You will find they also keep them cattle away from direct sunlight too out at night and back in at sunrise, so that goes to the pituitary gland again so same/same! wink


Edited by Law Dog (09/25/13 08:25 PM)
_________________________
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst

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#4019234 - 09/25/13 06:11 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: 160user]
walleyed Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/21/10
Loc: Woodville, N.Y. Jefferson Coun...
Originally Posted By: 160user
So I can take a live July coon and put them in a fridge for 2 months and sell them as December coon? Now THAT sounds like a retirement plan!


Them Coons'l Prime up Faster if you Put 'Em in the Freezer instead of the Refrigerator.

Everybody knows That !!! Sheesh !! laugh

w
_________________________
Member; NYSTA, OCTA, Jefferson County Fur Harvesters


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#4019246 - 09/25/13 06:24 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
GritGuy Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Magna, Utah
As much as this comes up every year one would think it would be a given answer any more.

No temps have nothing to do with fur priming, It's the photo period that starts it.

The fur density is a genetic deal due to habitat and genes from long ago where the animal lives, not temps.

Diet, health, age, nursing, all have something to do with fur density
_________________________


Sorry if my opinions or replies offend you, they are not meant to !

www.wasatchwild.com

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#4019372 - 09/25/13 07:32 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
Blunderbuss Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/03/12
Loc: California and Nevada
I believe that's true, but my point is that on an extra cold year is the fur the same as an extra warm year?

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#4019392 - 09/25/13 07:40 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
Nessmuck Online   content
trapper

Registered: 11/14/11
Loc: New Hampshire
Thats why Alaskan critters are worth more money...more fur.....because they have the shortest amount of daylight in the Wintah .
_________________________
It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

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#4019394 - 09/25/13 07:41 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
Nessmuck Online   content
trapper

Registered: 11/14/11
Loc: New Hampshire
Heck. ...our barn cat is changing it coat
_________________________
It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

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#4019484 - 09/25/13 08:16 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
G-Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/17/11
Loc: north west missouri
I was reading an article MISOURI COSERVATIONIST magazine lot long ago the primeness of fur has more to do the length of day light than any thing else .its an eye to body thing the way they described it.
_________________________
The more I do,The more I learn to love what I do. coyote(0)fox(0)coon(43)bobcat(0)badger(0)muskrat(o)beaver(0)opossum(2)mink(0)

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#4019528 - 09/25/13 08:33 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: G-Trapper]
EdP Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/04/12
Loc: paducah, kentucky
My dog sheds so much in the spring it is ridiculous. Maybe I'll just keep him in all fall and winter so he doesn't put on a winter coat!!!

People put on heavy coats when it gets cold out, not animals.

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#4019612 - 09/25/13 09:10 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Scott W. (Iowa)]
Dave Plueger Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/10/07
Loc: Iowa (where the tall corn grow...
Originally Posted By: Scott W. (Iowa)
Southern coon get prime, they just don't have fur as thick or long as northern coon. Fur is either building up or breaking down. Photo period determines this. Temperature determines how much is built up.


Exactly.

Alaska may have a a shorter photo period than the lower 48, but it also has much colder temps.

The determining factors for maximum fur density and leather primeness is a combination of shortening days AND cold temps.

If primeness were ONLY determined by the shortening of days, the coon would be at the same stage of primness every season on the same date. This is most certainly not true. The coon are always further along when we have a cooler, cloudy fall vs a warm, sunny fall.

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#4019629 - 09/25/13 09:15 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Scott W. (Iowa)]
Nick C Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/08/10
Loc: IOWA, HAWKEYE COUNTRY
Originally Posted By: Scott W. (Iowa)
Southern coon get prime, they just don't have fur as thick or long as northern coon. Fur is either building up or breaking down. Photo period determines this. Temperature determines how much is built up.


Great reply.

I will add.

Temperature and genetics of the fur bearers in the region will determine how much is built it.

I believe many fur bearers evolve into the quality they are in that region based on what benefitted the ancestors of that region for optimum survival.

That is why we get really really fat and decent fur density on our coon, to survive the winter.

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#4019633 - 09/25/13 09:16 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
GritGuy Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Magna, Utah
Depends on the photo period when it starts the priming action gives the fur a longer time to to grow. Density is dependent on genes, not temps. However variables such as health and growth time could play into density.

Most photo periods with any type of record keeping have established a starting period within a couple of weeks of each other each season.
I doubt that long enough to warrant a mass growth of denser fur.

Also there is just so much fur in the leather, it can probably get thicker with better diet and health, however I doubt it gets any thicker due to temps, it is what it is where the animal lives. It may change year to year with diet but I don't believe it changes due to temps.
Just my uneducated opinion !
_________________________


Sorry if my opinions or replies offend you, they are not meant to !

www.wasatchwild.com

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#4019635 - 09/25/13 09:16 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
trapper les Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/06/11
Loc: williams,mn
At any rate,you couldnt transplant a southern coon to northern MN and expect it to have real dense fur-the genetics arent there.

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#4019647 - 09/25/13 09:22 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
GritGuy Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Magna, Utah
That's correct and has been proven many times with several examples, the animals prime up but do not get any denser.
_________________________


Sorry if my opinions or replies offend you, they are not meant to !

www.wasatchwild.com

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#4019668 - 09/25/13 09:31 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
WisconsinCooner Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/12/10
Loc: Wisconsin
48.23 degrees Fahrenheit is when fur turns prime.😜

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#4019678 - 09/25/13 09:36 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
mink99 Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/02/07
Loc: Iowa
Cold weather will make fur stand up more and thus look sharper colored. But doesn't make fur primer.
_________________________
ITA, NTA, FTA

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#4019709 - 09/25/13 09:52 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
LLtrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/03/09
Loc: Pottawatamie co. IA
Fur is proactive not reactive. God made it that way so that an animal did not have to be cold in order for his coat to come on. It is called photoperiodism and it is all about the light (or lessoning of) and the eye of the animal that sets off a change in the animal. LLL
_________________________
"Opportunity is missed by most because it is dressed in waders and looks like work." Thomas Edison (except for the waders part)

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#4019757 - 09/25/13 10:20 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
Bob Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/09/07
Loc: Eastern Mt, 25 yrs old
so....i was thinking about it... we've had a very cool, wet summer and fall so far. the says are already getting shorter. will these two factors combined make fur worth more earlier? hmm
_________________________
"I have two guns, one for each of ya."

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#4019830 - 09/25/13 11:49 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
bottomlot Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/13/12
Loc: Wisconsin
I don't have much fur on my head- if I move to Alaska and spend all winer outside with my head exposed - will I prime up?
_________________________
He who dies with the most stories wins.

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#4019857 - 09/26/13 12:26 AM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: bottomlot]
elm river Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/18/12
Loc: illinois rinard
Originally Posted By: bottomlot
I don't have much fur on my head- if I move to Alaska and spend all winer outside with my head exposed - will I prime up?
lol me to
_________________________
Whatever happened to the dual only lasted seconds and at the end u knew who the man was.
Maybe someday

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#4019865 - 09/26/13 12:43 AM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
Coonhound1990 Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/26/13
Loc: NW PA
the cattle are kept with fans on them to keep them cool. If they get too hot or stressed out they drop weight and most will get hives on them so the cooler and more comfortable they are the better. It has nothing to do with the appearance their fur. they use clippers and hair spray to help the appearance of the animal. the reason they mess with their hair so much is to make the cow look bigger and more muscular than the competition and there is little tricks they have to hide flaws and show strong points just by messing with their hair. Hope this clears some of this up

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#4019866 - 09/26/13 12:45 AM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
Coonhound1990 Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/26/13
Loc: NW PA
also the cooler and more comfortable the cows are the more they eat which in turn makes your cow look bigger when its full. They basically try to get them to eat as much as possible on the day of the show

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#4019891 - 09/26/13 01:53 AM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
Aaron S Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/22/12
Loc: Sherburne county MN
The farther north ya go, the bigger the critters get, and the more dense the fur, from coons to deer.
We can agree on that right?

So... is it evolution & climate or God that prepares them for winter?

By the way, I believe in God, evolution, & amount of daylight not temps to prime fur... Figure that out! crazy

Also, no offense but, anybody that puts a misting fan on a cow like it's a fat football player.... Really has to much time on their hands. Imho




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#4019994 - 09/26/13 06:38 AM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Aaron S]
trapper les Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/06/11
Loc: williams,mn
I think I can go along with that.
Originally Posted By: Aaron S
The farther north ya go, the bigger the critters get, and the more dense the fur, from coons to deer.
We can agree on that right?

So... is it evolution & climate or God that prepares them for winter?

By the way, I believe in God, evolution, & amount of daylight not temps to prime fur... Figure that out! crazy

Also, no offense but, anybody that puts a misting fan on a cow like it's a fat football player.... Really has to much time on their hands. Imho




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#4020012 - 09/26/13 06:53 AM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Alpha Backflow]
160user Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/06/07
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: Alpha Backflow
In your head or the fridge?


Good one!
_________________________
I buy junked and broken traps and trap parts.






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#4020077 - 09/26/13 07:51 AM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
Scott Adams Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/22/10
Loc: Wise County Virginia
Cold temps make the the pores constrict thus making the leather thicker and lose the slate color.

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#4020094 - 09/26/13 08:05 AM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
tjm Online   content
trapper

Registered: 11/11/11
Loc: jane, mo., usa
Couple folks mention cool cloudy fall makes earlier prime, isn't cloudy a reduction of light?

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#4020097 - 09/26/13 08:08 AM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
Law Dog Online   content
trapper

Registered: 12/11/10
Loc: Central, SD
Everyones a biologist this time of year it seems, just like deer season you don't need no stinking degrees when you can just make it up a we go along!! laugh laugh laugh
_________________________
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst

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#4022351 - 09/27/13 12:01 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
trapperMD Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/27/13
Loc: eastern SD
College (south Dakota State Univ) taught me in a mammology class that it is LENGTH of daylight that triggers winter coat on animals. Actually cold fall may stress the animal and the fur will not be as thick as warm fall. So stress matters so I would assume that drought, and poor food supply will also decrease quality of pelt
_________________________
trapperMD
Live free or Die

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#4022357 - 09/27/13 12:14 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
foxtrpr Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/13/12
Loc: Hamburg NY
What causes a coon to be blue? The fur is still growing in the skin. The shift in the planets angle to the sun due to the earths tilt is what causes fur to start to prime. This AM got a note from my cousin up in AK they have freezing temps and snow in hunting camp. Winter come earlier in the northern latitudes. I bet the red fox up there are looking pretty good about now.
_________________________
"God never gives you more than you can handle."
No Greater Love Hath a Man than to Lay Down His Life for His Country

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#4022468 - 09/27/13 01:42 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
sdco300 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/30/11
Loc: avon, south dakota
Kudos to LLtrapper. Photoperiodism is the main contributing factor for fur priming and also causes the rut in deer. It is the amount of daylight entering the eye which is focused on the retina. After all I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night


Edited by sdco300 (09/27/13 01:43 PM)
_________________________
sd300 retired trapping because i want to.

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#4022537 - 09/27/13 02:27 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: foxtrpr]
SnareLine Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/02/10
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: foxtrpr
What causes a coon to be blue? The fur is still growing in the skin. The shift in the planets angle to the sun due to the earths tilt is what causes fur to start to prime. This AM got a note from my cousin up in AK they have freezing temps and snow in hunting camp. Winter come earlier in the northern latitudes. I bet the red fox up there are looking pretty good about now.


The increase in blood vessels and blood to the folicles, in order to nurtish the growing hairs of the winter coat.
_________________________
Hiding our humane dispatches doesn't keep the Antis from showing their own gruesome ones. In this 1 sided story, who will the public believe, then?

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#4022542 - 09/27/13 02:31 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: SnareLine]
bblwi Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: East-Central Wisconsin
Fur, hair is about 99% protein and thus very lean body tissue and needs lots of blood to grow and develop and even more when it thickens and changes to a m more hollow stemmed follicle that will hold more air and keep the animal's body warmer. Is it day light or the lack there of? that triggers the change? We know it is not the onset of colder weather that causes the change. Animals that have adapted to cooler climates have heavier fur coats and more fur but that is an evolutionary process and not one triggered by cold weather.

Bryce

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#4023228 - 09/27/13 10:31 PM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: foxtrpr]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Loc: McGrath, AK
Originally Posted By: foxtrpr
What causes a coon to be blue? The fur is still growing in the skin. The shift in the planets angle to the sun due to the earths tilt is what causes fur to start to prime. This AM got a note from my cousin up in AK they have freezing temps and snow in hunting camp. Winter come earlier in the northern latitudes. I bet the red fox up there are looking pretty good about now.



Red fox in Alaska aren't even worth bothering with until mid December.


What causes any pelt to be blue is the opposite of what causes it to be white.

"The skin and the leather side of prime pelts should appear
creamy white (Dolnick 1959a, Stains 1979). The creamy white
color occurs when the hair follicles enter telogen, melanin formation
in the hair bulbs stops, and the dendrites of the melanocytes
are withdrawn. Atrophy of the bulbs and contraction of what
remains of the follicles upward to the level of the sebaceous
glands (Ebling and Johnson 1964) contribute to the characteristic
color of the leather of a prime pelt (Dolnick 1959b)."
_________________________
Mean As Nails

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#4023383 - 09/28/13 05:20 AM Re: Temp to cause fur to prime. [Re: Blunderbuss]
Rick in mn Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/07/13
Loc: Monticello, mn
Well I guess White explained it pretty clearly
_________________________
2 triped traps, 1 coon and 1 grinner so far

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