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#3161482 - 05/16/12 03:56 PM Re: Bear attack [Re: Spek Jones]
northway Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/25/07
Posts: 1264
Loc: Tok, Alaska
Originally Posted By: Spek Jones
I love the pearly claws on that bear Northway.

Gen2600 and I went up to the cabin today and right after we left my wife went down to the barn to feed the horses. Barn is a couple hundred yds from the house. (She didn't take a gun). A brown bear (juvinile deliquient) came up out of the canyon and got between her and the house. She waited by the barn and watched him, waiting for him to leave. Then he spotted a mare with a 2 week old foal a couple hundred feet away in the pasture, and goes running out across the pasture after them. They see him coming and run for the barn.
My wife picked up a steel bucket and started beating on it with a pair of fencing pliers
and running toward him yelling. Fortunately, he turned and took off.

He was one of the 99% Yukon254 talked about above. Glad it wasn't the 1%. smile

My brother (lives less than a quarter mile from us) had to drop a young boar that was tearing the side out of his chicken coup a couple days ago and wouldn't leave. They
seem to get braver every year.

Making a lot of noise works very well to get most bears to move off before you even see them. Once in a great while though a sow with cubs and an attitude will come to the noise. I never have been very lucky at gambling, so gave it up a long time ago.


It is a really neat bear. Has a sort of white ring around the neck, pearly white claws and teeth down to nub's on the back. I will be getting the skull back next week so will get some pictures then. The bear is so neat I am getting it lifesized.

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#3161484 - 05/16/12 04:00 PM Re: Bear attack [Re: Aknative]
TrapperTy Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 62
Loc: Alaska
Aknative that is my experience with using the AR-15 on bears. They die well from it but like you said carrying it with the intent to use it specifically for bear hunting is not my recommendation either. I personally know a few locals that have killed many bears with the 223 even with the FMJ cheap ammo. I think the Barnes triple shock or nosler partion bullets would work well in a defense situation. The bears I have seen taken with a 223 were with 60gr Hornady softpoints and some Black hills 55gr softpoint ammo. The internal damage on both bears was impressive and they died instantly. A few extra shots were administered for good measure though. grin

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#3161510 - 05/16/12 04:22 PM Re: Bear attack [Re: northway]
Alaskan Offline
"AMY SUE"

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 4967
Loc: Gnome, Alaska
Originally Posted By: northway
The bear is so neat I am getting it lifesized.


This coming from the man, who prior to this harvest was invited to go Ox hunting and declared "I can't, I'm broke".

By lifesize, you better mean wrapped around a bean bag! smile
_________________________
"Goats pee in the water sheep drink."

Life member: NRA, NTA, AkTA, AkFTA, WiTA, MnTA, MoTA, OrTA

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#3161823 - 05/16/12 08:36 PM Re: Bear attack [Re: Cattrax]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 9
Loc: Alaska
"I missed my chance to use bear spray on a close encounter last fall. Anybody use the stuff?"

TrapperTy I have sprayed 3 times at pushy bears, not attacking bears. Two times at single bears juvenile delinquents (like Spek says) and another at a sow with 2 half grown cubs. These were all brown bears. I would say each time the bears were around 40-45 feet away. The spray comes out with a loud hiss and an easily visible orange cloud and each time the bears retreated immediately from the sound of the hiss before the spray reached them. One bear only stepped back into the willows and when the cloud drifted in there he started snorting and sneezing and left the vicinity. I sprayed in order to test the stuff and to hopefully give the bears some negative conditioning. I am very cognizant of wind direction before I decide to spray and hold it at full arm's length. I have been told that bears are not very fond at all of road flares but have not tried them.

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#3162064 - 05/17/12 03:33 AM Re: Bear attack [Re: Cattrax]
Family Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2087
Loc: Homer, Alaska
I do think that the spray might be a very valuable backup. Not having to be so dang accurate should count for a lot.
I think I might carry some for bow hunting. A long with my big pistola.
Some interesting testimonials. http://www.udap.com/testify.htm#testimonials
_________________________
Passion- There are some people who live in a dream world, and their are some who face reality; and then there are those who turn one into the other.

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#3162354 - 05/17/12 11:54 AM Re: Bear attack [Re: Cattrax]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Posts: 812
Loc: Homer, Alaska
I've never used it but have also seen a few young boars I would have liked to blast with it, (like Drasselt did).

Take the fact that bear attacks don't happen very often, then couple that with the fact
that when attacks do occur, the majority of the time you will have time to aim. That
knocks the odds way down on ever having a surprise attack where you won't have time to
get an accurate shot. Those odds can be reduced further. In order to have a surprise
attack there has to be something (thick brush, upturned root wad, hump of dirt, blow down, what ever) suffiecient to hide a bear while you walk up on it. If I'm hunting alone and have to walk close by a blow down or whatever I'll watch and be a little more on the ready than I will if I'm in areas where I can see pretty well. It's easy to get
complacent though.

Len, I tend to agree. It is a very short range defense though and if the wind is wrong
could be even shorter. I think if a person was going to use it you would need to work
on getting your mind preprogramed for it. Wouldn't want to empty the can at one 30 ft
away and it would take a goodly amount of self control to stand there and wait until
it was 10 feet away.

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#3162384 - 05/17/12 12:22 PM Re: Bear attack [Re: Cattrax]
yukon254 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/31/08
Posts: 445
Loc: Yukon
We had a bear break into a cabin and bite a can of bear spray that was left there.Even after a through cleaning and months later it is hard to sit in that cabin. Anytime you sweep, or a breeze comes in it stirs up the dust. Awful stuff that I think could kill a guy. Believe it or not the bear did come back and tear the cabin up again.
_________________________
do unto others as you would have them do unto you

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#3162390 - 05/17/12 12:26 PM Re: Bear attack [Re: Cattrax]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 9
Loc: Alaska
It sprays out with considerable force for maybe close to 20' and makes a widening cloud. There is also quite a bit in each can and it takes some seconds to spray the whole can. If one were coming on full bore from say 30 to 40 yards it would take only seconds to reach you and IF, IF, IF, VERY BIG IF the wind is right the bear would have to run through a pretty dense cloud which may or may not turn it. I think it would help convince a bluffer to give it up. One dead-set on destruction might just run through it, I don't and hope to never have to find out.

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#3162413 - 05/17/12 12:47 PM Re: Bear attack [Re: Cattrax]
Hupurest Offline
"Andy S wannabe"

Registered: 09/20/10
Posts: 290
Loc: Alaska
I have a freind who used sprayed a bear down on the beginning of the resurection trail by you Drasselt, They were walking back to the trailhead, and there was a bear on the trail, the dogs ran out and the bear chased them back. He sprayed the bear, he said much like your account, the bear was sneezing, rolling on the ground and making all sorts of noises out of discomfort. It rolled off the trail. they were then able to run by, and back to the vehicle, and in doing so, each person and dog got themselves a dose of the lingering spray. However, he reports that although it was not enjoyable, it was better than the alternative of being chewed on. He is a very expereinced woodsman and has had a few uneventful encounters prior, he was very impressed by the effectiveness of the spray.
It wasn't too long after that when the bear incident at the princess lodge occured.

There are specific qualities which bear spray is rated on, active ingredients, spray distance, time of spray and others. Only one meets all the criteria.
They also make "practice" spray, so one can become familiar with the operation. They also have expiration dates as well, keep an eye on those.

having recieved a dose of spray to the eyes from a LEO strength spray, I have no doubt that a bear, which can smell 1,000's of times better than a person, and for which the spray is WAY stronger than human spray, will be completely overcome by it, at least long enough to remove yourself from the situation.
_________________________
You can't have a million dollar dream with a minimum wage work ethic
Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle.

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#3162497 - 05/17/12 02:08 PM Re: Bear attack [Re: Hupurest]
Alaskan Offline
"AMY SUE"

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 4967
Loc: Gnome, Alaska
Originally Posted By: Hupurest
I have no doubt that a bear, which can smell 1,000's of times better than a person, and for which the spray is WAY stronger than human spray, will be completely overcome by it, at least long enough to remove yourself from the situation.


If you're not laying there next to it rolling around and crying too. Hard to remove yourself when you can't see or breath to get away.

The research i've done basically says to "wait till the last minute" to spray AND they emphasize the importance of wind direction as a small breeze effect the spray, and a large breeze renders it useless. Which leads me always back to my bear deterent (which the wind doesn't effect so much): a firearm.

And as stated before, a firearm goes bang (noise deterent), can be used at close rand and at a distance, not as affected by the wind, AND can be reloaded (if you get the opportunity).


Edited by Alaskan (05/17/12 06:49 PM)
_________________________
"Goats pee in the water sheep drink."

Life member: NRA, NTA, AkTA, AkFTA, WiTA, MnTA, MoTA, OrTA

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#3162794 - 05/17/12 06:06 PM Re: Bear attack [Re: Cattrax]
yukon254 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/31/08
Posts: 445
Loc: Yukon
If you're not laying there next to it rolling around and crying too. Hard to remove yourself when you can't see or breath to get away.

The research i've done basically says to "wait till the last minute" to spray AND they emphasize the importance of wind direction as a small breeze effect the spray, and a large breeze renders it useless. Which leads me always back to my bear deterent (which the wind doesn't effect so much): a firearm.

And as stated before, a firearm goes bang (noise deterent), can be use at close and short range, not as affected by the wind, AND can be reloaded (if you get the opportunity).

Agree 100%
_________________________
do unto others as you would have them do unto you

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#3163270 - 05/18/12 01:59 AM Re: Bear attack [Re: yukon254]
TrapperTy Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 62
Loc: Alaska
The noise of a firearm doesn't necessarily scare all bears. The warning shot I fired at our close encounter got the bear excited and he started coming at us faster. It was close enough that it sprayed dirt in his face.

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#3163513 - 05/18/12 10:51 AM Re: Bear attack [Re: Cattrax]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 9
Loc: Alaska
Gary LaRose ended up in the hospital in traction when he fired a warning shot.

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#3163542 - 05/18/12 11:10 AM Re: Bear attack [Re: Cattrax]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Posts: 812
Loc: Homer, Alaska
There is times it works and times it doesn't. I've had it go both way's. If there's only time for one shot, I wouldn't make it just a warning shot.

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#3163559 - 05/18/12 11:27 AM Re: Bear attack [Re: Cattrax]
Alaskan Offline
"AMY SUE"

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 4967
Loc: Gnome, Alaska
I consider any shot that misses a "warning shot"...but not by choice. smile
_________________________
"Goats pee in the water sheep drink."

Life member: NRA, NTA, AkTA, AkFTA, WiTA, MnTA, MoTA, OrTA

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#3163565 - 05/18/12 11:32 AM Re: Bear attack [Re: Cattrax]
Hupurest Offline
"Andy S wannabe"

Registered: 09/20/10
Posts: 290
Loc: Alaska
had a lady who likes to go out and 'build fairy villages" out of moss in the woods, it is "part of her therapy". Anyways, there are alot of black bears around there, and they wreck her fairy village and they startle her at her "fairy tea parties".

She wanted a pellet gun pistol to give the bears a sting, and scare them off. I informed her that it may also kill a bear, and that there is always the chance she decides to pellet one who may take that the wrong way and turn her into lunch. (there would be alot of leftovers, even for a hungry bear)...

people are weirdos.
_________________________
You can't have a million dollar dream with a minimum wage work ethic
Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle.

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#3163595 - 05/18/12 12:00 PM Re: Bear attack [Re: Cattrax]
Pete in Frbks Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 2100
Loc: Fairbanks, Alaska
Bear Spray: "Natural Selection in a handy aerosol can!"

I have sprayed several black bears with it. NOT charging bears, but rather, under somewhat "casual" conditions. Just to watch their reaction. It did NOT reduce them to quivering masses of protoplasm in every case. In fact, a couple of them just sneezed and went on about their business.

My hypothesis is that a "revved-up," adrenaline pumped-up, charging bear may be breathing more heavily and thus will ingest more of the spray.

My standard response to people who ask, is that I don't really care whether THEY carry a firearm or spray to dissuade bears. I choose to carry a firearm. Given my druthers, my choice is usually a 12 ga with alternating buckshot/slugs. A close second is a heavy rifle that I have been carrying as a "guide gun" for more than 40 years (my fingers know where the safety and bolt are; my brain doesn't have to worry about it in the heat of battle! It just happens.)

Pete

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#3163681 - 05/18/12 01:35 PM Re: Bear attack [Re: Alaskan]
yukon254 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/31/08
Posts: 445
Loc: Yukon
Originally Posted By: Alaskan
I consider any shot that misses a "warning shot"...but not by choice. smile


Very well put.

Pete thats interesting, and in line with a story I heard from a German tourist who floated the entire Yukon. He had a black bear messing around his camp one evening so he gave it a heavy dose from close range. He said the bear moved off slowly but returned soon after. He sprayed it again with the same result. He ended up moving his camp that night and camped on islands whenever possible for the remainder of the trip. A 12 gauge loaded like yours is very hard to beat.

A question I have never heard a good answer to, is what is a person that is relying solely on bear spray for protection going to do if they are attacked in their tent... This type of attack does happen. I wonder if the spandex crowd has thought about that?
_________________________
do unto others as you would have them do unto you

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#3163754 - 05/18/12 02:35 PM Re: Bear attack [Re: Cattrax]
Top Jimmy Offline
"Assistant Speling Zcar"

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4555
Loc: Alaska, USA
I have told this before but will again. My wife used to house sit for a couple of teachers that used to spend their entire summers canoeing and backpacking in the upper Northwest Territories. They used to pack bear spray with them to deal with bears that liked to visit on occasion. These bears had probably never seen a human before. One day they came back to camp to find a bear picking through a bag of power bars they had. Unable to scare the bear off with noise and waiving thier arms the decided to break out the bear spray as it started to look for other food at camp. They proceeded to whip out the spray and hit the bear with it. The bear started licking the spray out of the air like a dog getting sprayed with a hose. They stopped and the bear then went and started licking the spray off of some of the rocks around where it was and then went back to looking for more food before wandering off. After that, they quit carrying bear spray as they didn't think it was worth providing cajion spicing for bear meals.

I guess for me, the last thing I want is to have the bear not only eat on me, but also get me with spray residue. At least he can't turn the gun on me if I hit or miss him.

-TJ
_________________________
Some people are like slinkies - not really good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.


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#3163772 - 05/18/12 03:06 PM Re: Bear attack [Re: yukon254]
Pete in Frbks Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 2100
Loc: Fairbanks, Alaska
Originally Posted By: yukon254
Originally Posted By: Alaskan
I consider any shot that misses a "warning shot"...but not by choice. smile


Very well put.

Pete thats interesting, and in line with a story I heard from a German tourist who floated the entire Yukon. He had a black bear messing around his camp one evening so he gave it a heavy dose from close range. He said the bear moved off slowly but returned soon after. He sprayed it again with the same result. He ended up moving his camp that night and camped on islands whenever possible for the remainder of the trip. A 12 gauge loaded like yours is very hard to beat.

A question I have never heard a good answer to, is what is a person that is relying solely on bear spray for protection going to do if they are attacked in their tent... This type of attack does happen. I wonder if the spandex crowd has thought about that?


My guess is that the spandex crowd does not think that far ahead.....!

Btw, I have several times, just for comparison, sprayed bears (not particularly aggravated bears...) with mosquito dope. Got about the same reaction out of them as I did when I sprayed them with bear spray. My conclusion? OFF is a ton cheaper than bear spray and about as effective!

This sow kept bluff charging until I hosed her with bug spray. In the photo, she is just a couple of feet from me (I'm in a pop-up blind.) Someone really should have had a photo of ME, trying to operate a camera, bug spray and a shotgun. Simultaneously.....!


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