I am going to build a 12x16 cabin in a couple weeks on my trapline.

My question is...

I cannot use a permanent foundation like a concrete slab, sonotube with concrete or 4x4 or 6x6 posts underground stuck in concrete etc...
Most of you guys are living where the earth freezes down to China, freezes here too... What would be the best thing to use and do for a cabin foundation that would be on top of ground... large skids, adjustable piers, large trees?

Thanks

If you can get railroad ties into your location, cut them in half and crib them up on all four corners of the cabin as high as you want the foundation wall to be. Then use 16' long 6x10's (or someting close) on top of your cribs for your foundation wall. Keep a ten ton bottle jack under your cabin, when you have to make adjustments due to settling etc. it will only take you a couple of minutes to shim things back to normal.

Skids work. Posts under skids also works. A lot depends on your soils and drainage. Are you limited to the materials you have onsite or can you get other materials to the location ?

thanks, do I have to burry them a little on each corners?

crib?
You mean, they are sitting flat or they are vertical?

Thanks,

I can bring on site almost anything 1 man or 2 can lift

We use cottage slabs here. They're about 18" by 18" by 4" thick, available at home hardware. I have built a lot of cabins on them, not much need to worry about settling. My 16' by 18' trap cabin sits on nine, never had a problem with it. All you have to do is dig down to mineral soil, put the slab in level, then put a post on top. You don't even need to have to slabs all the same level, just cut the post you put on it to different lengths. You can also put cement block on them, but then they can only be out of level from each other by the height of a block. most outfitters in this area use them for their outpost cabins too.

Say your railroad ties are cut four feet long, lay two of them parallel with each other and four feet between them (outside to outside measurement), then place two more on top of those two, also four feet apart. Stack them as high as you want your crawl space under the cabin. Of course it's best if you can dig down to mineral soil first before you start your stacks.

The concrete squares (24 x 24) under your blocking is a wise idea. Sitting directly on the ground your blocking will rot out. Posts under skids and set on concrete. Cut your skids and flatten two sides with an Alaska Chainsaw mill. A good tip is to place your skids close to the outer edges so as not to create a cantilever where a snow build up on one side could tip your building.

One thing I did learn was not to use cinder blocks. A couple of mine are breaking down. This summer I will use some concrete pads and blocks on top under the skids to replace all the cinder blocking.

Here is what we did. 14x20. Ground has no permafrost, so is stable.

since you can't bury the posts these work very well and are available at any lowes/home depot/ etc...you just set your 4x4 in there....once you run your rim joist around, install any beams/floor joists etc, all your posts will lock in together as one big solid unit with a bunch of little feet...these things are easy to carry and fairly cheap as well...just cut your posts to the desired height, set them where you want them and start attaching boards....the more you build, the more solid the posts become

24 x 24 PWF foundation pads.... you would need only 4. build them out of PWF 2x6s three layers thick. I have over 20 cabins, most much larger than the one your building on them. Great thing about them is that they are easy to build on site.

I am wanting to build a 12x16 within the next year. I have treated Railroad ties i'll put down. Then put a two sided 8" log on top. Then frame my floor on top of the two sided 8" logs. Thus i can level using a bottle jack lifting the two sided log and shimming on top of the railroad ties. I'll jus shim the corners till i get it where i want it.

Burying foundation posts can sometimes lead to heaving as the frost moves up and down. I've built a lot of cabins and what i like is building on well drained sandy or gravel soil. I put down either PWF 6 x 6 timbers or creosote rail-ties flat on the ground. I put them down as level as possible without getting too crazy. If you can place the timbers on a layer of gravel for increased drainage it's even better. Once the timbers are on the ground and squared up I frame my floor system up and then bring it to level off of the timbers. How you level depends on how much clearance you want between the ground and your floor. I like a couple feet for ventilation and air-flow under the floor system so I use 4x4 pwf posts to lift my framed floor to the right height.
If you want a floor at more ground level you can use shims to level right off the timbers but make sure you use pressure treated or cedar so the shims don't rot.

Another trick is to put your ground timbers on top of shingles that are laying on the ground. Shingles will last over ten years in the ground and provide some protection against water coming up. If you want to reduce mice in your cabin lay down a sheet of heavy poly on the ground before laying your ground timbers down. Mice don't like the plastic and avoid living under your cabin floor. I've got another cabin build in my future too.

PS - buddy put cabin on concrete walk blocks that ended up splitting in half under the pressure. We talked about it and thought he could have perhaps put a piece of 3/4" pwf ply on top of each block to help carry the load. Ended up jacking up and replacing with railway ties.

Thanks, lot of good informations and tricks.

Akitzman... What I don't like about these is the slots and the square hole is only 1¾" deep.
Here's good links:

http://bnbpetcare.com/personal/yardshelter/footings/

http://www.coyotecottage.com/cabin/cabinconstruction/foundation.htm

http://www.deckplans.com/

Bushman, I like that plastic idea "mice"

Do any of you put wire mesh under the floor joists to prevent mice infestation?

Thanks again!

I've done the posts wrapped in visqueen with all sorts of variations of concrete added and you still get settling. I posted a photo before of what my neighbor did before with jack screws under metal U brackets that hold your joists. Once you concede there will be settling you have to have something to adjust it with. My problem with wrapped posts described above is 20 some years later the added weight of several additons to the cabin out of control resulted in max settling. It is so bad I have doors that are unuseable because I have no easy way to adjust the settling.
What Bushman is recommending is a good solution also with slightly elevated area with pad of sand/gravel and just build on it. As long as it is kept cabin size I've seen it work.

Update....

My wife and I went on our registered traplines this week end for cleaning and preparing our future cabin location.
We could take a few pictures when we were working or eating...LoL

We started cutting some small branches on that small road that gives access to our cabin location.



Almost done with the trail we will be using to go in/at the cabin.



Cutting wood behind the trees where the cabin will be.



Here's a few shots where the cabin will be.





Shed location



A lake picture



After working all day... We went at an old mine location where I found some old foundations and we ate a delicious meal with "Vino" !
BTW... I found plenty of wolves tracks around those foundations




A native dump on my wife's trapline we found





And before leaving this afternoon.... We had lunch in front of a river on my wife's trapline, chicken breasts and vegetables right on the road! LoL




And even in the bush... I need my "latté" coffee and I can make some that taste almost like the real thing!



Here's a little video my wife took of a spruce grouse that was not shy at all...LoL



And a on this shot... we can see from the future cabin location where the small road is...



Hope you enjoyed?

Next trip there will be to build the foundation and the insulated floor.

Stef

Looks like you have a nice area!

Thanks Yukon!

Bushman...
You meant something like this?

6x6PT direct on the sand?



How long can it last (rot)

This seems interesting.
What do you think of this? (ground screws 50")

http://www.pylex.com/en/index_en.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFOKVZ1aAyM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTzj6oEgc0E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvG3OHsLURY

Cachottier I have never used those but would sure like too. I know some contractors who started using them a few years ago and love them. The only drawback is that you have to be able to get equipment into the site..... for me thats impossible. If you can I would go that route.

Just bought 6 adjustable 50" pylex for a 12x13½ deck i'm building this week-end.
Funny... The inventor and distributor has his business close to my place...LoL
Talked with him on the phone yesterday and I asked him how many pylex I would need for a 12x16 cabin and he told me 5 per side so it = 10 pylex for my cabin.

Found a place where they sell them for 21.99$CAD per pylex.
That's cheap enough.

Will post a pic of the deck later... Hope it will work good...LoL

Here's a deck I built today using the new 50 inches adjustable Pylex.
It worked very good.
I will use them for my cabin foundation.
Pretty cheap, fast and 50" below!
No concrete, no digging etc... I'm sold.

Here's a pic of the deck I made. It was a test at the same time before build ding the floor cabin...LoL
Will surface the top wood tomorrow and will start weatherproof treating them asap.

I may look into those things. What is your joist spacing there and the span ?

The joist are 12' 10" x 12'
The deck will be 12x13½

Spacing 24" inches 2x8x12'

The beams 11' 4" space

My joist spacing on my cabin floor will be 16"

Looks like it should work. I see you used a cat for the dirt work

I see you used a cat for the dirt work


LMAO....

Cachottier. off topic abit but thought i'd post a couple pics of my 14x14 cabin i built last year. the exterior is all cedar. (1x8 x3/4" fence boards

Not the best idea but it needed to be done...LoL

16ft in a 6ft truck box



It was pretty hot hauling sand to cabin location.



First 4½" x 7¼" x 16ft beam in place and level



Both beams level and ready for action



Floor joists all in place



All done covered with plastic waiting for the walls (next trip)



We did not have time to pick up a lot of blueberries but we had the time to eat plenty of them.
Next trip... we'll bring some more for the winter time (freezer)



BTW...I did not use the Pylex system!

Why did you not use the plex system? Cost, or not happy with it?

Roots and also the size of the top "clip".
I wanted beams minimum 4½" thick by 7¼" and with the Pylex you cannot use a beam thicker than 3 and half inches thick.
That's the reason why.

Was easy anyway the way I did it and if it moves a little.... I can lift it and repair it.

Looking good. The start is always the hard part. I wish we had blueberries like that. Wow.

Than you for sharing. Looking forward to more progression pictures. Did you insulate the floor ?
I am kicking myself for not doing that.

Ron, I will.
I will put 4x8 pieces of styrofoam on top of the plywood you see above and I will put a plastic on top of it and I will add another plywood or something else to make the real interior floor.

You could do it even if your walls are already up... You just have to move all the stuff that are in your cabin now...LoL
An inch or more of styrofoam is better that nothing and better for mice proofing a floor.

But beware the ants. They love it.

Dealing with an ant problem now ( carpenter ants in a log building!)

Styrafoam will work no doubt but a better and cheaper method IMO is to insulate the floor with fiberglass bats and nail plywood on the bottom of the joists. This is much easier to do if you have planned the building process around it..... but is still do-able. The trap-line cabin I just traded was built this way and was by far the warmest cabin I have ever had. I could shut the stove down and be gone for three days at -30 and the water pail would not be froze when I returned.

Finally have two trap-lines close together and just bought a bandsaw so will be building my last cabin this winter....

What is Pylex?

With batting you must provide ventilation or the condensation will cause rot

I'm dealing with those darn big black ants as well. So they like that blue styro insulation ??? Anyway to insulate I am skirting it in with insulation (probably fiberglass) on the skirting. (but not this year). There will be good ventilation to open during the summer months.

Catch 22 ... mice like fiberglass but not styro, ants like styro but not fiberglass.

Ron, dunno if its applicable...but they dont like cinnamon!

I've had great luck on ants using Baking soda. Sprinkle around affected areas and they pack it off and not return. I heard it works so i tried it at a buddies rental. Went back a few weeks later couldn't find them anywhere.

When I build a floor system I sheet the underside (after squaring up floor) before laying batts of insulation in. 3/8" plywood is plenty on the bottom as it just holds the batt insulation in and keeps mice out. I do not place poly down and wonder to what advantage in a floor system? That I believe could lead to mould in a floor system. Love your construction pictures, looks like beams are on concrete walk blocks? I love old railway ties those creosote timbers last for 100's of year, but apparently are toxic.

Not wanting to derail Cachottier's thread any more I started a new one on Carpenter Ants.

Same here Brian. I either sheet the bottom or use chicken wire on the bottom to hold glass insulation. I have used poly on the top side of the joists and it does cut down on drafts...BUT if you spill liquid on the floor it can get down the cracks and will remain there a long time.

The thing to remember when installing poly is that it MUST be installed on the warm side of the floor/wall/ceiling to avoid condensation in the cavity. Also, as I'm sure all know, and has been pointed out, rodents, especially squirrels, love fiberglass insulation.

Here's an update of my truss design.
Hope this model is fine? Because I made all of them today.



I also made the first and the last truss like this.
Hope this model is also ok?



later

So Cach your 12 x 16 turned into 14 x 20. Not an engineer but those trusses look like they will be ok. Only a 14 foot span. You could cut a 4" x 10 " beam and run it full lenth of the center. Be surprised how handy that beam would be besides adding stability. Keep er going, looks good so far.

My friend, and neighboring trapper is right now building a cabin. Wow you guys should see it, everything is to building code. Once finished I will post some pictures. Quite a bit of the floor design/interior was my suggestions and he is pleased with it.

The top truss is stronger and a more typical design.

AV thats why I don't use poly. I sheet the bottom creating a sealed cavity which is also sealed against mice and squirrels. I want floor system to be able to breath and as heat rises I wouldn't want that poly creating a vapour seal.

Yes, sheeting is the way. The rodents will love you if you secure the fiberglass with chicken wire, or "lightning rods". Tyvek works, but again, the rodents get right through. Treated plywood skirting, with 2" rigid foam is an option, and is much less miserable to install than laying on one's back stuffing fiberglass in the floor, having all those millions of glass particles raining down on the face. I hate that part!

i've bit the bullet and use blue rigid insulation. EXPENSIVE but a one time cost. Also great for roof systems with tight spaces as you can still get proper ventilation at tight spots.

More photos... Worked hard and cabin is up now!

Looks awesome

look good. that roof design should be just fine.
if you don't have a plan for the exterior, a good route would be to start collecting cedar fence boards from fences that have blown down.
heres my cabin i built last year.

Looks good !

Not sure how much snow you get but if it were my place I would gusset both sides of those trusses.

Although both sides of a typical truss has gussets, the Queen post configuation he used has the web members in compression which don't require large gussets. Being that the bottom chord is in tension but is a one piece continous member that can't stretch, they should be fine as they are. Also the roof slope he used and the steel roofing applied should allow most snow to slide off and not accumulate very much.

Thank you for sharing Cach. Looks like you are going to have a great serviceable cabin there. keep posting pictures as you progress more.

Actually code here requires gussets on both sides and a minimum 10x10 inch plywood gusset at each joint, when using home-built trusses.

Home made trusses won't fly here at all. The engineering calcs are to be submitted at the time of permit application and Sealed drawings at the time of Rough framing inspection.
That 10x10 rule is kinda Stupid unless they spec the nail size and nailing pattern to adequately provide for load transfere. Also spec's for gussets with complete disregard for lumber grade and species is a mute point. They are all relative.

It is spec'd. Minimum 1 nail per 1.5 sq inches. 8d min nail. I agree with you that the grade of lumber should be stipulated but isn't.

Looks like you guys had a good day!

You are living a dream, wish it was possible around here.
Look'n great, only thing that concerns me is the window in the door. Don't think I would like it that low.
Keep the pixs coming

Thank you for the comments!

More pics from last week end.
More work done on the cabin.
Next trip will be to insulate it because its already cold up there and hope to put up the outhouse.
After that... I will start thinking traps on this new ground.
I can tell you that there's lot of wolves tracks in most dirt roads and I saw some like 75ft from my cabin. Later

Grouse hunting action video

Click on it



Stef

Looks like fun. 2 questions. Is that 2x4 or 2x6 ? Isn't that stove pipe going to be susceptible to sliding snow ? Hows your bear population ? OK that's 3 questions.

Walls are in 2x4.

Stove pipe... yes we think about it but space was a problem inside and I want to put a little oil furnace inside the cabin (should be done later)
Anyway... I'll be done and out of there by the end of the November and I will remove the black straight pipe "chimney" that we don't see in the pictures so... sliding snow won't be a problem for the chimney.

Bear population.
A lot on the 200 square km trapline but close to the cabin there's a medium size bear in the area from the tracks we saw the past couple weeks.
We don't have Grizzly here so..... Don't see many problems with the exception of the door window. I will put a HD mesh on top of the door window just in case one bear wants to destroy it.
Other windows are fine (high enough).

Yeah removing the vertical part of the pipe should fix that problem. Yep I'd be concerned about the bears and the door..

Looks like a pleasant place.

built this one this summer

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Fixed it for you

Just built this one and it ended trapping for me this year. Sprained my ankle then (because that didn't hurt enough!) 2 hours later while hobbling around dropped a wall across the top of the same foot. (Of coarse that wouldn't stop me..) Got the outside done as best I could then throw in the towel and took my "club foot" home.

This is mine.

All nice cabins, thanks for sharing!

Website is up now http://www.leurresforget.com/?id_lang=1