any kind of tips or tricks or modifications or even questions about of on stoplosses / gaurd traps

i ask the first question when the trap is a 1ong spring like 1.5 single long when its being used in the feild or pond or stream do i keep the pin under the spring or do i pull it out so has soon as the trap fires the bale is released or the animal has 2 pull on the chain to pull the pin to fire the bales

i remove all the pins on mine. i see no need

I leave the pin in place and then when the animal pulls on the chain they will pull the pin and then it will work the way it needs to . I have caught coon with the victor #1 stoploss with this set up for muskrat. Also mink . I mainly used them to trap rats that can not drown themeself or if you worry about them twisting.I have also used #1 blake and lamb also with this set up . hope this will help .

wow i geuss i am the only 1 that has any questions or any thing 4 that matter that pertains the these traps i figures that people would hav some pics or questions or something on them

but thank u 2 4 answering my ?

There's not a lot to say about these traps. No need to modify anything, they are mostly used in special situations or by longtime muskrat trappers who have lots of them from years past.

As for the pin inserted to hold guard versus no pin, that part is open for debate. Depending on the model - style of trap & guard along with where the muskrat is when trap goes off, it is possible for the guard to lift the rat's body enough for trap to miss a catch. I wouldn't consider that a common occurance but if the trap comes with a spring pin, I'd use it.

In the past I have had rats wrung off in deployed #1.5 victor coils due to the bar's design. When fully deployed it stops parallel to the trap's base frame in horizontal position. That doesn't put enough pressure on the rat to pin them in place... when they avoid drowning long enough to slide their foot away from spring (strong) side of trap to the weak side jaws and end of guard bar, there is still room to twist and spin.

The #1 longs with guard bars that fully deploy vertical to trap frame keep constant pressure on the catch and prevent spinning at the weak side jaws location. That would be old style victors, new style bridgers. The guard traps that deploy in towards the spring like old-style blake & lamb and new dukes pin the catch to strong side of trap. I've never had a loss when using either of those style guard traps in any make or model.

Hope that helps clarify a bit

ok i just figured there would be alot more people wanting to add to this thread that had catch pics or other stuff on them but thank 4 the information

I trap a fair # of rats each year and have extensive experience with almost all if not all of the common #1 stoplosses brands out there today. They are all effective with slight variations in effectiveness based on my preferences in a trap and what I expect them to do.

The victor #1sl round pan is my favorite. The primary weakness I see with it though is when it comes to incidental coon...if you trap rats you will get coon. The guard deploys away from the spring and pushes the coons foot in that direction this tend to cause the foot to slide to the side opposite the spring resulting in a toe or two in the trap and no coon. Obviously the weaker these traps become the worse the problem gets. I have much less of this when using the old blake and lambs or new dukes.

The one modification I do to all my rat traps is swive and add extra chain.

Teal

Very good trap in shallow water where there is no room to drowned a rat.. Theyll hold a mink just fine too

never tried them

Where do the pins go into on them? Could someone post a picture because I have had no luck finding on where to put em. I would appreciate it thanks

The pin goes under the tips of the jaws opposite the spring to hold down the guard.

Would a no. 1 victor stop loss work good on a float?

Double in stoploss traps

this is what happens when they don't pull the pin on the guard.I have long since removed all the pins or don't use them.

stoploss on a feed bed

I thought I had a few more than that but I guess not.I like the older blake and lambs also.I have some of the dukes I bought a few years ago and they are the same basic design.I prefer the bail to pin them towards the spring side also.Not a big fan of the older victors that push away from the spring myself.I will look in some other files to see if I have other pics stored that I may have forgotten about....

Has any one tried Sleepy Creeks Guard trap? I have a few dukes but they seem to be real knuckle busters. I didn't think of the pulling or pushing of foot toward the spring till this post I would like to thank those who have mentioned it. Aren't you fighting the way animal is pulling if the spring closes toward the spring and risking more foot movement in the trap? One thing I will say about the dukes is it seems when the guard comes over on a rat it puts their lights out. Thanks for the tutorial on guard traps after this year and our low water levels I can see their advantages just not sure witch to go with. I am currently using 1.5 coils and like them very much but there are certain circumstances where I feel a gurad would work better.

I tested a dozen sleepy creeks last year on my line. Much to my surprise I really liked them.

This suprised me because of my hatered for the victor square pan for which it was modeled after.

They are a little spendy though.

Teal

Thanks teal. I am looking at only about 5 dozen and only using in certain situations and if rat prices hold I think they will pay for themselves pretty quick. I am pretty sure that is what I'll get baring any bad news about them.

Stop loss traps,quickly pay for themselves. They are my main rat catcher.
Tom

Parallel topic: guard-type traps would be my own #1 choice if trapping inside houses on thick ice, and there are probably some other niche uses for them as well. But the drawback for using them at every open-water situation in the fall season is speed: for those who care about max efficency setting and production, foothold traps are the least efficient approach when compared to colony trap or bodygrip traps respectively. From there, guard-type traps are slower to actually set than coilsprings on a timed basis. A skilled colony trap / bodygrip trapper can easily outproduce an equally skilled foothold trapper in the same waters with few exceptions to that general rule.

So guard traps are excellent where needed, but it's still the slowest mode of set traps on key locations per hour... unless we are talking about inside of huts. The fact that nil losses are enjoyed is a big benefit over improperly used or inadequate footholds without guards. That said, when ice is anywhere from 2" to 5" thick and no snow cover, skilled muskrat trappers can catch way more rats thru that ice then cutting into huts. That bellcurve changes when ice gets thick and/or heavy snow covered. But when ice is clear or opaque and less than 5" thick, a veteran ice trapper can read hot runs and catch way more rats than one trap per hut with all that time spent cutting in, setting and repacking material to close the hole.

Spring season is completely different: then it is foothold traps all the way with a sprinkling of colony or bodygrip traps for max production.

So depending on which season we're talking depends on which trap or style of trap is "best" to use for max efficiency of time spent vs potential rewards.

Going to throw a wrench in your thoughts Austin. Dependent on the conditions you trap under,determine which type of trap is quicker and easier to set.
I trap areas where you are waist deep--or deeper in water.Mud can be very ,very deep.In these conditions,110s and colonies are so much more time consuming to set or even find a spot in which to use these traps.The stop loss and rat houses go hand in hand(and I also mean trapping open water houses)--not in the house.
Personally,after over 4 decades of using stop loss traps,they are much more efficient and quicker for me to set--than any 110.
Another benefit to using properly staked stop loss--the hundreds of beaver and coon I have taken in them as incidental catches at my rat sets. The same thing cannot be said of 110s and colonies.
It all boils down to --what you are used to and the conditions you trap under.
Tom

very true tom

Well said bogmaster, saved me a lot of typing!!

However I do have around 150 colony traps and have areas that they are about the only traps that get put in the boat when heading out.


c hartman

Bogmaster it sounds you you and I trap similar types of ponds. I have been using 1.5 coils as my primary trap but this year receding water made it so colony traps worked well at some locations. For some of my real shallow trapping I wish I would of had a few guard traps witch I will this year. I have noticed a lot of rat activity in small creeks that I will have to figure out my system out for those waters, but that is another thread.

I do love colony traps.The problem in areas I trap--finding a spot for them.Dozens of colonies have ridden with me over the last few years,problem is--all they ended up doing was --acting as ballast.
If I had areas with a lot of shallow water rat runs,or dens they would be my trap choice. But unfortunately,these conditions do not exist in the areas I trap.So I rely almost exclusively on my stop loss traps.
Tom

Stoploss traps catch 90% of my rats, Funnel and colonys each have a place on my line also. The 110's I had are slowly gettin sold off as I find that they are not used much anymore. Good post Tom.

Well, with all due and utmost respect... and I mean that sincerely... what you describe is still ideal conditions for high-efficiency bodytrap use. It goes like this:

Say you have ten big houses in a one-acre size area. Assume there are fifty or so muskrats living there. Some of those muskrats will climb up on the houses, sometimes. Not all of them, and not every night. If indeed that wasn't true, rat trappers could simply set and maintain traps on every muskrat house in a given area until they were all wiped out. Right or right, theoretically?

But we know that never happens. Matter of fact, you can hut-trap in the fall, go back thru and ice trap in the winter, then go back and float trap in the spring and still catch rats. Why? Because only some of the rats climb on their houses some of the time.

**

On the other hand, every single one of those muskrats in that same given area travel from houses to feeding areas and back. Multiple times. Multiple trips... every night. Now that all happens in a rather confined area, and I can assure you that several key locations in every area like that are major muskrat highway intersections. They exist everywhere muskrat numbers congregate... often in three feet of water or so, very often invisible to the untrained eye.

I don't even consider #110s an effective muskrat trap for setting the key runs. If working in water depths three feet or so, #210s are the way to go. Staking in mucky or silty bottoms is no problem, that's just par for the course in our game

Just about all rat trappers out there equate bodygrip trapping and runs as defined by those visible tunnels and dug channels with milty water that Stevie Wonder can see. I'm talking about something completely different that only a relative small percentage of muskrat trappers ever become aware even exists.

The main reason for that is necessity. States where trapping houses is legal, guys never look past that approach because it is effective, simple, clear-cut and obvious. For the most part that group of trappers goes on to perfect their own individual approach to hut trapping. But those of us who cannot set within five feet (or more) of any house have to by necessity elevate our game beyond hut trapping because we have no choice.

I can assure you there are many places in your marshes where two to four bodygrips (or one colony trap) set strategically close will hammer multiple catches repeatedly... in the same amount of time it takes to stake in one properly set footer on each single house. A preset #160 or #210 attached to slide adjust for depth on a stake takes less than ten seconds to crack open and set in place while floating or walking past such spots. Once someone develops the eye for "seeing" those traffic-funnel locations, it's easy.

This is no different that the veteran ice trappers who cannot set inside of a house learning how to read the ice and find the one - two main runs for setting with colony traps or #210s. Next day's check the hut trappers have one rat in some houses set... but the under-ice guys have multiple catches at many houses in two - three bigger bodygrips or single colony traps guarding those hot runs.

I couldn't agree more austinp whenever I find an entrance that I do not have to put my head under water to set I will set a colony trap in it. A lot of the houses and feed beds I was setting this fall were in water I had to move carefully so as not to fill my waders. It seemed more time effective to set coils on the lodges and feed beds. One area the colony traps shined was were I had some steep banks and you could see the entrances. Then colony traps were the only way to go. I hope to get better at reading sign because if I could set 100 colony traps a day my rat numbers would skyrocket. Due to low water this year there were huts that were too shallow to set colony traps because when the rats came out of the house thy were partialy exposed. I tried digging trench deeper but the goo or mud kept filling it in so I set the feed beds and lodge with 1.5 coils and did ok this is were I wish I would have had guard traps. I might have to try some body-grips at these locations, but most of the time if I had a rat that didn't drown the mink chewed it up.

I like the conversation thus far I am still learning and I feel if I can't defend my tactics then I should re-think what I am doing. I have a question austinp the rat ponds that you trap; are the bottoms somewhat hard or do you waller through knee deep goo when in them? I'm am thinking this is the difference, but if not I have a lot to learn on reading rat sign. I haven't been doing this long but I do want to be the best that I can. Due to websites like this and a few local trappers I have jumped light years ahead in my skills. I do know that I have a lot to learn yet, and I hope I don't come across as some arrogant youngster because I am not. I just take my trapping very seriously the wife might call it an obsession. I am hoping to trap full time in the next couple years between ADC and fur trapping, and I know I need to be better than I am right now. Thank you all for sharing information. I know the trapping industry was not like this in the 80,s when I first wanted to learn.

To me you come across as someone who is anxious and open to learning

First of all, by no means am I even almost suggesting everyone should scrap their footers and all go to bodygrips and colony traps. Not at all. My point was there are different modes of systematic muskrat trapping other than footers on or in houses. For the many states where guys cannot set with five feet or ten feet of a house, their choice is to either curl up in a fetal position and lay there numb, or figure out some other way to find those rats.

To explain fully would take a lot more time and effort typed into a message board than I'm willing to do. Not to mention the actual shelf life of a thread is measured in months or less before it's buried and the next generation of viewers are asking the exact-same questions all over again <grin>

I'll summarize with this: muskrat behavior is very parallel to whitetail deer behavior. Both are herbivores, both use their home areas in the same way: shelter and varied feeding areas with travel in between the paths of least resistance thru the safest routes possible. They also behave differently as the seasons change and especially during each respective "rut".

If a knowledgable deer hunter applies the same animal behavior to muskrats, he's got the basics pretty much figured out. Find the houses or dens, and key funnels of heavily used trails = runs converge somewhere nearby.

**

On a seperate note, I have decided to produce a technical, nuts & bolts, heavy on the how-to and where-to aspects of muskrat trapping in open water DVD. It'll be a compilation of videos and recordings classroom style, it'll be quite different than anything on the market now, and I think there will be some valued tidbits in there for most everybody. I'm going to price it at $25 which is exactly the average of two (2) muskrat skins this season, and if anyone who buys it truly thinks it disappoints, I'll give them their money back

imo that's the absolute best venue to cover a subject thoroughly in detail from A to Z without interruptions or sidenotes and reach the widest audience possible. Message boards are excellent for conversation snippets, but the two-way interjections and sidelined discussions are not the ideal place for info-laden, unbroken streams of thought

I would be very interested in the video please feel free to PM me when it comes out. I honestly would have to re-work most all my system if we had a 5 foot rule. I would also probably have to become a much better trapper if that were the case. In some ways I wish we could spring float them but I don't know how our rat population would handle it.

We all adapt our trapping techniques,to follow our laws and regulations.
Hut trapping is legal in many of our states,so my style of trapping keys in on these houses in areas where I have them. In areas I didn't have them, I used other methods.One of thes was the artificial feeder huts. In most cases I used the traps Ducky originally started this thread about--stop loss traps.
I have always preferred the written word over videos--why ? Because thats the world I grew up in and how I learned.
Our world has changed,videos are what our younger trappers are used to and what they seem to want.Heck even their cell phones have video capacity.
whatever way works for you--by all means, use it.
Pup ,if you are able to get your hands on some Trapper and Predator Caller magazines from the years 2000--to 2008,see if you can find--10 rounds with a muskrat house and,inviting muskrats to dinner . I also had an article on stop loss traps, plus several others on rats and beaver.
Ducky,if you have any further questions on stop loss traps--fire away.
Austin,if you will be attending this years NTA convention--look me up,we can discuss rats, till the cows come home.
Tom

Has anybody saw the new stoploss oneida-victor came back out with?

Tom wasn't the original question asking weather or not and or how to use the pin? The pin on a victor or a blake and lamb is not needed at all. I have cut all mine off.It only took me 40 years of trapping to figure that out.

That question has been answered already. Those that have talked to Tom on guard traps will know his dislike of the delay pins...and corresponding lack of the pins on the new duke guard trap.

Lord willing I'll be there, and it'd be my great pleasure to sit and listen intently for as long as you feel inclined to keep on talking

heres another ? .... how many of u hav pinched some skin trying to set the long springs the the bale set on top of the spring . i do it alot if a dont use the pin

As to the above discussion, on my line I try to standardize all my trap and have gone into this in previous posts. However, this does not mean that I don't have a variety to chose from in any or most given situations. If I were to only use foot holds I'ld be leaving fur/$'s on the table, likewise, if I were to only use colonies or bodygrips the same would hold true.

The key, on my line, it to have the tools available in the quantities that I need so that I'm able to effectively adapt, maintain a high catch % and harvest large numbers of the target species. At first, this may slow a trapper down as he or she learns to see potential sets quickly and deploy the correct tool for that situation. Once I learned to do this the - standing in the mire hemming and hawing over what trap to use and multiple trips back to the boat/truck went away and I intuitively grab for the right piece of steel. This has improved my ability to compete with other trappers in high competition areas and added dramatically to my catch.

Teal

My plan is to attend the NTA...Can I join the rat discussion until the cows come home?

Teal,I will be doing a beaver demo at NTA. I haven't gotten my booth space yet,but you should be able to find me.The main discussions at my booth always seems to be about the water rodents--be they rats or beaver.
Ducky, I get slapped by the guard spring several times a year--its just part of trapping.
My stop loss are all put in totes ,its how I keep organized when trapping.
Each tote has a single style of stop loss--(Duke,Blake and Lamb and the last Northwoods stoploss(made by victor) are in the same totes.Victor and Bridger go in other totes. That way I keep a rythm when setting traps.
With the victors and bridgers--the pan has to be flipped to the right before the guard spring can be put in place and the trap set.Forget to flip the pan and the guard spring gets bent and the trap won't set.
Its the little things that make us better trappers.
TOM

Around here in Wisconsin,and I'm sure in Minnesota,the cows coming home,is directly related to closing time at the bars on ladies night.

There is some things I see what not brought up on the stop loss that is some states dose not let you use colony traps and all they can use is 110 and stoploss and as for stoploss how many have trap the feed beds for rats.I caught alot of rats trapping them with stoploss.Also there is a reason why there isa pin there on the trap .That is why I always use it .I held alot of coon that got caught in them by one toe . I know if it was not for the guard I would of lost them when trapping for rats. What is all comes to is what your state allows and how you can set.For me I use what looks best that will work for what I have and then go from there. Since I am in this of Iowa i have a choose of what I can use . When I was in the state of MA at the time you can only use conibears and footholds in water so I use what have and went from there.

While the pin was there for a reason,it was a non-needed reason.I have used stop loss traps for longer than I care to admit to(A guy hates to say he is getting old).For a lot of those years I used the pins religiously.What I found was ,when I lost a rat--it was do to the pin getting hung up and not allowing the guard spring to activate. I removed all my pins, I now have a guard spring that fires every time.And while some believe this will throw a rat from a trap--I have not found this to be the case. Removal of the pin has not hindered my coon catch either,at my rat sets.
Coy ,you are right,we have to use what works for us while following the rgulations for our state.
Tom

What style do you guys prefer? The kind where the stoploss is on the spring and folds(sets) away from the spring or the version where the stoploss rests on the opposite side of the trap and when you set it it folds toward the spring?

me three! BTW Tom i sent you a message on go2gbo..

For those that use the stoploss or if you do not and how you use them is up to the user . I know for trapping there is really no worng way . because we all have our onw way of doing things and as long it works do not mess with it .Like Bogmaster it works for him the way he use them . Then you have someone else that it will not work for them I under stand what he say about the pin . I had that problem at first then i just found my own way to make it work and then went from there.

Whatever works for you do it , myself I am with bogmaster on this one I don't see one reason to use the pin, always a chance for something to get hung up and not give the spring a chance to deploy if the pin is used.

austinp,

I'd love to hear more about finding the travelways of muskrats. Any info you give here is appreciated.

I too never use the pin. vicor rd pan is my trap of choice....Wynn

Ya I don't understand trapping inside the house ,kinda like people using them to jump there snow machines , I guess if your looking to kill every rat in the marsh . The stoploss I just add three feet of chain and replace the trap ring with a heavy orange zip tie , this doesn't snag on the trap pile ,and makes it easy to spot , I don't use the pin if the springs are still strong , I always take a mix of traps , don't buy the duke stoploss there junk , the pan tension can't be controlled and the loss part doesn't even work ,they do make a great rat trap after cutting the guard off

no worries... that's impossible. hut trappers only take a percentage of all rats present, just like any other tactic. When ice is 6" to 18" thick, trying to work thru the ice becomes real slow-going rat work at best

The trappers in this state would see you put in jail for setting like that, switch to baited conibears when the ice gets thick , trappers need to respect the animals not take there house away from them in the dead of winter .

Pesky critter--please don't speak on issues you have no knowledge of.Your ignorance on hut trapping is way to evident in your posts.It makes you sound more like an anti than a trapper. They also speak against things they don't understand.
Tom

x2

I have a couple of #1 jumps that are stop-loss. Is it just me, or is that a pia to set? I am not sure that I can even set it correctly as I have no experience with stop-loss. Does anyone have a picture of one set that they could post?

x3

The Dakotas allow hut trapping. The Dakotas don't run out of rats. A baited coni through the ice might work--but how do you plan to get through two feet of ice to set it???

Here's what happens: cut the hole in the hut, place trap, plug hole. First muskrat in gets caught. All the others that want to be in there then enter the hut and do just fine. You can pull your traps, come back two months later, and trap the same huts if need be. There will still be a bunch of rats using them.

Well you better stay where your at then , it doesn't fly here . The trappers here in this state would never let lazy methods like that fly . There's no need to explane how to destroy a muskrat house ,

Pesky, did you ever thank they wouldn't stand for that around you because it's illegal?

It is illegal to:
Molest or disturb or set a trap in the internal compartment of any structure such as a lodge, hut, push-up, house, hole, nest, burrow or den of a badger, beaver, mink, muskrat or raccoon, whether occupied or not, or molest or destroy a beaver dam, except under a DNR Wildlife Damage Investigation and Control Permit.

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10363_10880-31600--,00.html

Lazy methods?

Trapping huts is TEN TIMES more work than open water trapping!

Again Pesky Critter--please do not respond to things you have no knowledge of, all you are doing is showing off your ignorance.
Rat trapping in huts is very hard work--surely not for the lazy.This method of taking rats is also very strictly regulated.All material removed to gain access into the hut,must be wetted and placed back ,to plug the hole made to set the trap.This keeps the hut from freezing up. I am not explaining this for you(pesky critter), I am explaining this to others who have seen your posts,and may actually think you have something of substance to say.
Tom

It is illegal here and will keep it illegal , one thing about living in the part of the county that has the highest grade of rats there a resorce . We protect that resorce , cutting a hole in the side of a rat house because your to lazy to cut a hole in the ice , sounds nuts to me . When you guys need coons what you just go cut down a den tree

Sometimes it doesn't pay to explain different methods to people that have a hard time comprehending the written word.
I appologize to those that have entered into this thread to learn things about stop loss traps,and have been subjected to the rantings of the closed minded.
Other legitimate questions or sharing of knowledge,is more than welcome!
Isn't that why we are here?
Tom

that is very true i creatide this tpoic so i and other could learn ab out the stop loss trap not rants

Grade of rats has nothing to do with populations and trapping conditions. MI rats are no better than NY rats and if anything, slightly inferior. We cannot house-trap here either, but states where muskrats are 10x more abundant with winters early & harsh legally permit other forms of trapping than our states. Do you think that the DNRs in North and South Dakota, Minnesota and many other states that allow hut trapping know less about resource management than you do? I'd opine that is a very egotistical stance.

Openly flaming one of the most respected water trappers in the profession (bogmaster) with direct insults of being lazy isn't too mannerly for someone who registered here a month ago.

I can assure you thay bogmaster has caught more rats and beaver that you'll ever see from your lines. Now that's extending you the courtesy of assumption that you actually trap. For all anyone knows you could be an anti just here to troll and amuse yourself. But I'm assuming you are not, that you are actually a respectful trapper just like the rest of us. If so, your opinion of hut trapping remains unchanged but how you conduct yourself here surely better change... or you will not be in here for long.

the natural course of any message board on any topic where men share opinions is just like this... and often WAY worse to the point of intolerable elsewhere.

message boards are filled with bits information surrounded by reams of conversation and noise. books, dvds and convention demos are places where unbroken focus on topic take place. message boards are like conversations at the local restaurant, bar or family dinner gathering

Please explain to us how cutting then plugging a hole in the hut "destroys" the house.

The muskrats use the same hut all the way until spring, long after it has been opened and closed multiple times. It does not freeze them out.

The lazy guy finds the easiest way to do it. Takes a few minutes to bust into a lodge grab some wet vegetation put in a trap and stake it then reseal it. Its a lot quicker then baited 110's with a foot of ice. I can set 5 rat houses in 20 minutes. How long would it take you with the baited 110's under ice? Which method will catch you more fur? Setting inside the lodge DOES NOT DESTROY THE LODGE! Muskrats will continue using them the rest of the winter. Only way they will be destroyed is if the trapper is careless and does seal it properly and lerts cold air in causing it to freeze. Asking "when you guys need coons what you just cut down a den tree" doesn't pertain to the subject. We are talking easy methods. It would be easier to put out sets for coon then to cut down a den tree. Just like how its easier to set inside a muskrat lodge then to bust through ice and put in a baited 110. You know nothing of setting inside lodges. Don't bash something you know nothing of. Yes baited 110's catch muskrats and can be effective but setting lodges is just as effective/if not more effective and is easier to do.

@Austinp and Tom. I would love to able to listen in on what would be some very knowledgable rat talk and take some notes. If its okay with you guys of course!

I am here to learn new ways and how orthers trap. I give my input on how i trap and use traps that is on the topic and see who dose things different .I know we all have our own way of doing things and that is why in my past post that what works for one dose not mean will work for someone else.I know some type of stoploss it is best to sometime not use the pin but I see sometimes that when you do use the pin in some makes it will bring the bar down below the jaws. That is how I see some are . I want to say thank you for all that eplain how they have there traps set up and how they use them . Thank you all Looking forward for more ideas and ways of setting and usen traps .

fine by me and just so everyone's clear, Tom Olsen has caught one helluva lot more muskrats than me, too. I may use different tactics than him out of necessity, but by no means would I disparage or insult him or anyone else using legal, accepted methods of trapping.

I've talked to Tom before and watch his muskrat demo at every MTA convention I go to. He really knows a lot about trapping! He taught me the pocket set at a muskrat house and thats one of my highest producing rat sets.

Pocket set on a hut!!!! You lazy excuse for a trapper...I've never heard of such a blatent disregard for the resource since chopping into huts was discussed. What an outrage! Don't come to WI and try that garbage.

Just yank'n your chain...thought I would save peskycritter a few keystrokes.

Teal

Had me going for a few seconds there LOL. Pocket sets on huts work wonderful though!

Just to let you all know that I seen a wildlife show some time ago about the muskrat and the hut set was the one that was showen a trapper set and then the next day open it up and taken a rat out of it I do not remmeber what trap it was But I found it intersten to watch and also about down south they said that the fur was not worht much but they where trapping them for the meat to restraunt . Just to let all know that it was on tv for that one set.

Thanks Teal I almost started to lose my sense of humor on this one.

Thanks Austin and Tom for the great info and Tom I'm looking for those articles. I hope to be able to listen in on some of those conversations at the NTA.

Joel Money of Hawley MN 37 years "and after today feeling" old

.

Interesting discussion guys.

Pesky, you could learn a lot from these folks if you give yourself the chance.

A pocket set on the side of the house I would guess most would do and I don't see a problem with that , cut a hole in the side of the in the dead of winter I do see many problems with ,first the coyote go yum, second once the rat is caught its going to dive down and wrap up in the bedding area . When the trapper pulls the rat there's going to be damage done , what's the other rats going to do . If the rats stop using the hole its going to frezze up .Why would you want to spoke the rats before you even get started , setting one or two baited sets under the ice will take them all , they will have no idea your even there . I guess if you must I would only setup the feeder houses , this set has been done for ever , they would take a big cross cut two man saw and just cut the whole house top off , lift the top off and place 4 traps , one could really get some traps set this way , also have a great catch , but the marsh would wasted by the end of the day . Not a good plan . Baited conibears or board sets work great . The light from the hole cut in the ice will attract every one of them . Also much more easy to check ,This how you trap rats in the winter . There's all kinds of ways to cut ice , axe,spud,chainsaw,ice saw,auger, take your pick

AHHHHHHHH-lets talk only from experience.Also lets compare apples to apples and not apples to cow poop.
The upper midwest has some of the most severe winters in the country.Ice and snow is measured in feet--not inches.Our open water rat season may be only a few days long and at times, not even that.
The ways of trapping(Legal,ethical and proven methods) are a lot different than those in the ---bannana belt.
Feeder huts and push ups are a lot easier to set,(does that mean the trappers who set them --are lazy???) nope it doesn't.But try and find them when you have several feet of snow.The houses you can usually find.
As far as coyotes tearing up a house once a trapper has entered it--not in my country.That houses exterior is frozen brick hard(and we as ethical trappers have plugged our entrance hole with wetted material)That plug freezes rock hard,while the yotes will pee on every hut,they look for easier ways to secure a meal.
I would also like to see you use boards and baited sets when you have 2 plus feet of ice and that or more amounts of snow. Please make a video of this ,it should be quite entertaining for the rest of us.Please also include your catch percentage to the number of traps you have out.
I have been accused of being many things---but never being a lazy trapper.
Lazy trappers do not last long,they find other things to do .
10 years ago,I could and would,carry out 200 pounds of beaver at a crack.Now at 60 ,I have toned it down--I try to keep it to a 100 pounds,and rotate my catch out.
I guess I am not only getting----Lazy---I am getting old.
Tom

I sure hope you have never set a coni in the front door of a rat tunnel, or hut, peskey, cause that's just plain lazy. You should only set your rats traps up in a tree. You will be sure not to be lazy when your trying hard to climb up a 30' tree in a wind storm and you will be sure never to take out the whole rat population.

That made me laugh pretty good.

@Peskycritter
Due to the fact that setting inside a house is considered a underice set and thats an unlimited check time in MN I've not checked a rat house for 5 days. I reopened it and guess what? It was wet just like the first time I opened it and there was a drowned rat in the tunnel. Rat houses often times have 2 entrances. This winter I had a set out in a hut and I messed up with the set and forgot to put the chain on the inside of the hut so it was on the outside. I was checking everyday though. There was a fresh snow that night and there was fresh coyote tracks right by the mnuskrat hut. I still had a LIVE muskrat inside the hut. I set one rat hut in December and caught a muskrat. I set it again in February and it was below zero. I had a muskrat in it. Was it frozen inside? Nope.

And how many rat houses have you trapped to have all this expierence?

Id like to buy some stoplosses. They sound pretty effective.

we cant set with in 10 feet of the hut in maine so i hav no use 4 all this arguing i like the info about trapping huts be arguing about it has no help to people .



. pesky critter. dont be a intagonist . we r all set in our way if some people like trapping in the hut its there biusnes . .

. thank every 1 four talking about it

In NY we cannot set within five feet of a house either... which is why our tactics here have evolved by necessity into systems that target rats away from houses in their prime travel zones. But if I were operating somewhere that legally permitted hut trapping, I'd have no qualms about adding that to my approach as well

Staying away from the house 5' or 10' would be a major bummer in the open water, we were at 6' years ago but luck we got that changed , staying away just makes it take longer , maybe you trappers could get things changed for the better , we just got are season extended ,not as long as we like but atleast a month , it really came in handy this past season seeing we dint get much of a winter , are your guys rat numbers way down like I'm hearing , I know are numbers were way down. There were more coons than rats at the auctions . What was weird the rats in the ponds,lakes,marsh the numbers were way down but in the creeks they were higher than ever ,it was like the rats were just moving around all season , I ran a long line for mink along the Ohio border and found some crazy high numbers of mink there catching 1 mink for every two rats . That was fun I love to trap mink . I just hope the rat price will hold . I just keep adding on my rat ares . Having insurance is a big help when getting on some of these places . In the summer time if I get trapping job on a lake I just ask about the rat trapping and how it's free come season , I get a hold of the lake association and talk to there leader ,take me to your leader , last year I got this one lake that I've always wanted on ,and then the lake [Please excuse my language... I'm an idiot] on the lake accross the street called saying hey, so it ended up two lakes all because I had insurance that's only 500 a year . There wasn't much for rats but I could see we're they we're last year ,so when they make a come back I should be could , there both weed choked lakes , with only conibear and colony trap type bank runs , bottom edge sea wall sets , I guess will never understand setting inside the house but it sounds like you guys just love it ,so good luck with it

it isnt to bad just set bank dens and runs and some baited set get most in runs and baited sets around here

So you can set right up to the bank dens , thats good , I remember we had to stay 6' back that was tough on the lakes . Two years ago this duck hunter comes up telling me you know the DNR is out here sometimes , I go I know they sent me out here said this where the rats are , he's like all your traps are too close to the holes, I chuckled and said oh know they change that law . He goes they did then went into his old war story's, back years ago there were lots of trappers around , now there doesn't seem to be many people out there , just to much work I guess , hardly see any kids , even at the auctions hardly any , doesn't granpa take the time anymore

Our language in the regulations was simplified to "muskrat house" which cleared up any ambiguity for trapping bank hole locations. Truth is, as many or more bank holes in most places are actually feeders and not dens. Those are key locations where you can catch 6 - 10 adult rats in three checks... actual bank dens have fewer residents than bank feeder holes.

Keep in mind that all muskrats spend much more of their time away from houses and dens. In other words, they are swimming thru their core areas way more than they sit on a house or in a den. The hottest locations for cross-traffic muskrat trapping are feeder dens and key funnels in their travel zones. That's there the bulk of group activity is concentrated each night

The bulk of the group activity--is concentrated at my skinning table each night.
Sorry Austin--I just had to do it.
Though I much prefer skinning beaver over rats.
Tom

huge grin... and I enjoy skinning beavers but prefer rats. Someday when MN allows me to buy a license there, we can team up and I'll peel all the rats we can catch. Just don't expect me to lug all the beaver you catch uphill thru the tag alders and willow thickets back to the truck, though. I must draw the line somewhere

I prefer to skin rats it's just the numbers that can get to be a pain. Beaver are a little nicer than coon and coyote at least you don't need a machine for them if you have a bad shoulder. I wouldn't mind lugging them beaver for the education I think I could receive while doing it good thing my legs still feel young.

you're hired! soon as MN opens for non-residents, I'll team up with Tom for a spell... you can carry all the beaver, I'll skin all the rats and Tom can spend his time setting traps and telling stories.

works for me

the law states A muskrat den is any cavity which is capped by muskrats with vegetative matter, including but not limited to hollow stumps and bank cavities. Holes in the bank not capped with vegetative matter are not considered to be muskrat dens. and most if not all our bank dens r not capped by muskrats with vegitation so we r good

Now we just gotta work on that law that has everyone up in arms. I can't believe we would come out on the short end of the stick on that one but a lot of people seem to think so. I don't want to open that can o worms here though. When we do get it changed I look forward to that day Austin.

just wondering what you all think. square pan vs round pan on victor stoploss? which ones better?

Round pan for me mostly because it is easier to adjust the pan

round pans for me...I hate those square pan vics

Got rid of all my square pan vics a long time ago.
Tom

Ya them square ones just miss a lot , so do the jump traps , the jumps work good on the board sets ,

Stop the presses! Must be a full moon or something!

I agree 100% with pesky's most recent post. Seriously, 100%

me too

Jump traps work good on feedbed and at lodges!

The only problem with using jumps at feed beds and huts is their light weight .If it is a straight shot to deep water--fine,but if vegetation entanglement takes place, you will remember why we like the stop loss trap so well, for muskrats.
Tom

I never set a foothold for rats unless they'll reach ample water depth to drown. I clear all vegetation out in the water also so they don't tangle.

Use the right trap and spend less time at your set and get more sets in. Your numbers will increase at the end of the day. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about because I've only been trapping rats for two years but I think that is the way to do it. I think that was what Tom was trying to get at politely.

I'm not bashing the stoploss it is the best muskrat trap I'm just saying #1 jumps work well to

I'm not saying # 1 jumps are not good traps. I am saying if you have to remove the vegetation to make sure they are the right trap for the spot you may be spending more time than needed at the location than needed. I have more traps than I probably need but I think having a few stop-loss for shallow spots might be better traps for the job than what I am using currently. I definitely know when just getting started it is hard to afford to have all the traps one needs but it is something I am working toward. It took me a year to realize if I can cut a couple seconds off making each set then I can make a couple more sets at the end of the day witch with rats usually means a rat or two in my daily take. That is why I pointed out if you have do more than set the trap and stake it you might be spending too much time at the spot. The way I was taught was to make a simple but effective set as many times as you can for the time you have. That will lead to the best numbers. I have seen a few excetions to this, but it has to be justified by numbers.

Northern Outdoors I did not believe you were bashing stop-loss traps I just thought I could see a way you might be able to use your time on the line more effectively. I am not trying to bash you or the #1 jump it just sounded that you might want to look at things a little different.

For me one of the hardest things for me to do is stand back and ask myself if what I am doing is speeding me up or slowing me down. Carrying another type trap is one of those questions that I am asking myself right now. Will it be worth the space and time to add stop-loss trap to my canoe this fall. I think I may try a couple dozen round pan Vic's this fall or Sleepy Creeks guard traps. It all depends on if I find some deals at the NTA convention.

I'd switch all my muskrat traps to stoploss I'm just to cheap to do it.

Stop loss traps are like swivels, they pay for themselves in short order.
A muskrat saved is a muskrat earned.And that muskrat more than pays for a stop loss trap.
Tom

Whats the price stoploss run used?

Used vics are around $6 to $7 each.
Tom

Tom (or any high number rat guys)do you mind me asking what your trap - chain set up looks like? i.e. Trap-swivel off spring- 2 links of #2 machine chain- swivel- 2 links of chain swivel- then 15" of chain and terminate with a swivel wire off to second J hook on last swivel. I am looking at redoing my chain set ups on my traps, and my mentor uses traps set up like they come right out of the box. I think I could do a little better if I added more swivels and they might not tangle as bad if I used machine chain vs. the double link that they came with. Thanks for any advice.

Sorry ducky if this is getting off your original topic but this thread has been a great one for rat knowledge and would like to keep it going.

$6 to $7? I was looking at getting 6 dozen footholds for rats next season. I think the stoplosses are a little bit out of my budget

what else do you intend to buy?

Was intending on 1.5 coils to also use for mink and coon. 4 dozen 110's 2 dozen 550's or #2 Bridgers, a dozen or 2 330's, some wolf snares. Misc. other gear

I think at least 1 swivel would be a great addition, but with the # of stoploss traps I run my chains are still factory. I do agree it sure could'nt hurt things to modify the chains, I just hav'nt done it.

Sorry ducky if this is getting off your original topic but this thread has been a great one for rat knowledge and would like to keep it going. [/quote]

its perfectly fine i enjoy that u guys r talking about trapping rats and stuff its ok to go off topic for a spell it just keeps the thread going

I have a question for you and I would like you to think about it before you answer. How many furs are the MN550 going to bring to your fur shed for a 2X$190=$380. How many furs would the 6 dozen used stop-loss bring to your fur shed #6.50x12=$78 6x$78=$468?

Yeah or I could buy used 1.5 coils for $40 a dozen. 6X$40 is $240. And use those for coon, muskrat, and mink. Or for that 468$ I could get 12 dozen used 1.5 coils. Which could put a lot more fur in the shed. The 550's are for my winter line. Now how much open water do we get usually get in a season? Which would I get more use of?

That is exactly the questions I was trying to get you to ask. The same ones I wrestle with every time I buy traps. I currently have about a $17,000 shopping list that would be nice but witch ones are going to bring the best return are the ones I try to buy first.

The only question I'm juggling is 550's or #2 Bridgers. I've made up my mind on the 1.5 coils. I'll be buying stoplosses if I got some extra money when I go to NTA.

Do the #1 Stoploss offer any distinct advantage (in catch percentages) over a #1.5 coil? Doesn't the heavier weight of the bigger coil make up for the stoploss feature?

The stoploss prevents the muskrat from twisting out. If the water isn't deep enough or to much vegetation it poses a risk of a rat twisting out.

Between myself and a buddy (more him than me), we caught over 1500 muskrat this winter, mostly through opening huts on top of the ice.

Quite a few wring-outs with #1 longspring. Stopped using them.
Very few with #1.5 longspring. Probably should switch chains opposite of spring.
Almost none with #1.5 coilspring.
None with #1.5 jumps.

I'm just wondering what the cost/benefit analysis is for a #1 stoploss versus simply going with #1.5 coils or jumps. My best results were with heavier traps yet--Bridger #1.5 and Victor #2 coils. They simply don't allow the rat to do gymnastics, even in the late-season huts when they were not drowning.

Even though it has always been touted as a muskrat trap--the plain jane #1 long spring needs the best of conditions to work well as a rat trap.
Ater 45 years of chasing rats,and trying most traps, I just prefer a #1 stop loss, they work for me and I can set them with my eyes closed.
Tom

Wonder how many ring offs you would have had using baited conibears

I wonder how many misses happen using conis compared to setting in a hut?

In many areas,baited body grippers are a very low percentage set.
One has to go with what works for them and what is the best set for the area they are trapping.For me one of the least effective sets is a baited body gripper.
Tom

If you use a over size conibear hardly any , much less than a jump trap . 1.5 coil trap is a muskrat eater . I use them on some sets . The problem is there round which makes them hard to secure to bed down on the house , with the long spring I can put the spring into the side of the house . I use the house to hold the trap for me . The long springs are lighter too . So less weight in the boat . The jump trap does seem to work well on my board sets . The stoploss jumps I do use the pin . The victor round pan stoploss I do not use the pin , problem is there getting hard to find . The victor square pans are all laying on the bottom of some marsh after I got [Please excuse my language... I'm an idiot] of and threw them

Anybody know how much a 1.5 Pioneer trap co. long spring goes for? And lastly what about 1.5 long B&L stoploss?

I use round and square pan stoploss .If the square pan give you problems just turn them to round pans and I think it will take care of you problem . As for fasten the stoploss I keep as is and put a wire on them to a stake and it uct down on loss of traps from coon . ALso if a coon pulls the stake it becomes a drag in the weeds.I learn that from one person I use to trap near years ago and works fine for me .

Isn't the square pan a whole different design trap?

I have some 1.5 north woods stoploss but don't really like them ,but there still in the boat. The 1 north woods long spring is my best mink trap for edge sets . Really good on the female mink . It's also a square jawed trap .

Yes Hap, the square pan is a completely different design than the round pan.
There were several versions of northwoods stoploss.
When the Northwoods came out with the #1 1/2 stoploss,it was modeled after the B and L #1,I bought 8 dozen of them,but the stop loss spring was overly wide and would actually pass over small rats and female mink, without touching them.(more to follow--as time allows).
Tom

good stuff guys i dont have many i only have 1 square pan but the bail and spring where taken off can i buy the spring and bail of is it just better to leave it a #1 of should i put the bail and spring on

or better yet is there a way i can make them thinking of a rat trap spring and a piece of coat hanger

I just bought a dozen sleepy creeks- how did you like that delay mecanism on them? Seems to pull awfully hard to me.

so no one has tryed to make there own gaurd system

i never saw any, but im thinking they used to make an add on stoploss set up. it bolted or riveted to the base plate of your longspring trap. these were made a long time ago i think, some one else could probably clear this up.

You are correct. I have some for sale on the shed. I have used almost every type, and found I like the vic rd pan the best. So I have been selling the other types I have. If you get into the rythm of setting one kind and grab a diff style it kinda throws you off. lol

yes wynn, il ike the blake and lamb # 1 myself, and the the duke is a very close 2nd. i have to wax my dukes thats the only thing about them, if not t he spring will rust and not fire{stoploss}. but then wax that trap and they fire perfect.tried painting the spring and it helped for a while, now i just wax em.

Here are some of the old style, (top pic) is the add on style with rivited on base.(bottom pic ) Crimp on base, note that there is a Victor Giant in the bottom pic.

Here is a few more styles of stoploss. Thought this thread needed some pics,lol


.

All my stoploss traps(Blake and lambs are a good example),have had the chain moved from the jaw end to the spring end.That way, it allows me to pull the chain tight when setting and does not leave excess chain with which the rats can pull back onto the huts.
Tom

nice pics and good info

wynn, how and where in the world do you find all those continual masses of guard-style traps?

That's just a few . lol I love to fix up the misfits that people cut the guards and springs off. I have seen almost every kind made. lol Finding parts is the tough part.

so its a no on the home made bail and spring

Ducky I'm going to be trying that. I got some rat traps at an auction and I have some B&L #1 longs that somebody took the bail off!

Stoploss works on my rats
A must in shallow water

colony traps work to

Even for a nut ball
I use a rake in deep water and large orage zip ties for trap ring on long chain some spots a take a mix of traps and some I don't

In my area I'm trapping the same water the French did hundreds of your ago , sometimes you can feel there spirits , gives me a chill at times , and the lifting power to just go and go and hit it hard . For me it's all day every day or not at all . I tried to just hobby trap it just doesn't work for me . Not saying there's anything wrong with running a small line . I just can't . I know providing for your family comes first and it better .

My reason for going hard is I want to catch a few more than the day before.

good job pesky

ok guys i had some problem with my acount and got a new name . it seems as thought its has died . so any one got anything else to add. and tips or trick to using these traps

Welcome back Ducky.
Tom

I forgot if this has already been asked but what are the disadvantages and advantages of the delay pin?

I have removed the delay pin from all my stop loss and when working with Bill Duke on their stop loss,had them delete it from the trap.
I found over the years,if I lost a Muskrat in a stoploss ,it was because the delay pin failed to function.It got hung up and the pin failed to allow the stop loss spring to release.
Way to avoid this problem---- remove the delay pin.
Tom

Thanks for the info Tom! I never 100% understood the purpose of the delay pin so I never used it.

ok so i geuss i have 2 acounts now hehehe . its me again. so what kind of set do you guys prefer for stop losses