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Alaska Trappers Association

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#3105929 - 04/04/12 01:43 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Jordan Park]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 7
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Jordan Park
From what I've read, the Moose population is very strong, and no matter what the Wolves are doing to their population, it's very easy for someone to shoot a moose to provide for the family kitchen table.


Jordan can you tell us where you read this? I'm not calling you out I would just like to know your source.

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#3105949 - 04/04/12 01:55 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
fishermann222 Offline

"OX"

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 5292
Loc: Bethel, Alaska
Our season just reopened two years ago after a 5 year closure. Jordan you do realize the size of Alaska right?
_________________________
I survived the Tman crash of '06

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#3105968 - 04/04/12 02:06 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
akpawpincher Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 73
Loc: Alaska
My last moose hunt ended with no moose seen... Plenty of wolf tracks and howling in the night though. Not sure where all the moose went....hmmmmmmm
_________________________
Trapping and predator hunting since 1984: "So that others may live."

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#3105995 - 04/04/12 02:26 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Posts: 812
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Our moose calf survival rate here is almost zero right now, Jordan. Hunters don't shoot moose calves. Wolves and bears are killing them about as fast as they hit the ground.
The killing of the majority of the calves pretty much takes place during May and June. The other ten months of the year they mostly feed on adult moose. With basically no calves surviving for recruitment, how does that work out for you?

Restrictions on what constitutes a legal bull here for humans to harvest has been applied to the point where last season in
this subunit, I was told by the local biologist, the total harvest was 15 moose. This in an area that should support an
annual harvest of at least 400 bulls.

Our department of fish and game recognizes a desperate need
for predator control in this unit, but their efforts are
being hampered by an ignorant and vocal minority.

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#3106015 - 04/04/12 02:39 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: drasselt]
Jordan Park Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/20/11
Posts: 0
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted By: drasselt
Originally Posted By: Jordan Park
From what I've read, the Moose population is very strong, and no matter what the Wolves are doing to their population, it's very easy for someone to shoot a moose to provide for the family kitchen table.


Jordan can you tell us where you read this? I'm not calling you out I would just like to know your source.


I did alot of searching on google about the moose in alaska. I don't know how to post the websites on here but I can copy and paste some of what I read:

The Alaska subspecies of moose (Alces alces gigas) is the largest in the world; adult males weigh 1,200 to 1,600 pounds (542725 kg), and adult females weigh 800 to 1,300 pounds (364591 kg)[9] Alaska's substantial moose population is controlled by predators such as bears and wolves, which prey mainly on vulnerable calves, as well as by hunters.[9]
Because of the abundance of moose in Alaska, moose-human interactions are frequent. Moose have played an important role in the state's history; professional hunters once supplied moose meat to feed mining camps. Athabascan people have hunted them to provide food as well as supplies for clothing and tools.[9] They are now hunted frequently by big game hunters, who take 6,000 to 8,000 moose per year.[9] Today, moose are often seen feeding and grazing along the state's highways. Moose can sometimes cause problems, as when they eat crops, stand in the middle of airfields, or dangerously cross the path of cars and trains.[9]

Wildlife abounds in Alaska. Anchorage is probably the only city in the United States that has a moose problem; there are hundreds within the city limits. There has even been talk of declaring a bowhunting season for them in the city's Hillside suburb. Grizzly and black bears have been shot within the city in recent years, too.

These are just a couple of hints that made me think the moose population in alaska is good, nevermind a bunch of posts i've read on trapperman about trappers seeing multiple moose on their lines.

I wasn't trying to start a huge debate, I was just simply wondering how people in alaska were being deprived of the protein in their diet due to wolves.

Jordan

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#3106025 - 04/04/12 02:46 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
FishinHank Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 954
Loc: PWS, AK
If you can copy and paste the content of the website I think it would be pretty easy to copy and paste the address of the site. I am interested to see the source of the information.

To me it sounds like the information describes the area around Anchorage. The population is high around anchorage because they aren't allowed to get harvested. We saw a cow with a calf that was eating the shrubs at the executive suites hotel on spenard this past weekend. We pulled into the opposite side of the parking lot from the moose to avoid them and the calf walked right up to the truck. Mom was not happy about that, we had to start up the truck and move just so we could get out.
_________________________
[TravC]: an educated coyote is like a fat girl on the diet....she dont slip up with a cheeseburger but sooner or later she goes for the bigmack

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#3106029 - 04/04/12 02:49 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 7
Loc: Alaska
The moose are relatively safe in populated areas since they don't get hammered by predators. Moose in Anc only end up on someone's table when they get hit by a car. Anchorage is a tiny speck on the map. There are very very few roads in Alaska so very very limited access.

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#3106041 - 04/04/12 02:57 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Jordan Park Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/20/11
Posts: 0
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted By: Spek Jones
Our moose calf survival rate here is almost zero right now, Jordan. Hunters don't shoot moose calves. Wolves and bears are killing them about as fast as they hit the ground.
The killing of the majority of the calves pretty much takes place during May and June. The other ten months of the year they mostly feed on adult moose. With basically no calves surviving for recruitment, how does that work out for you?

Restrictions on what constitutes a legal bull here for humans to harvest has been applied to the point where last season in
this subunit, I was told by the local biologist, the total harvest was 15 moose. This in an area that should support an
annual harvest of at least 400 bulls.

Our department of fish and game recognizes a desperate need
for predator control in this unit, but their efforts are
being hampered by an ignorant and vocal minority.



http://www.adn.com/2010/05/23/1291310/calving-season-alaska-moose-population.html

This site says 25% of calves survive not almost 0. Although 25% is very low.

Also fishinhank, i didn't know you could copy and paste the address of the site. I just did now for the one above. It says bears are the major reason of calf mortality. Compare the number of calves killed each year by bears to the number of moose killed by wolves where they kill for fun and leave the moose to rot.

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#3106048 - 04/04/12 03:02 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 7
Loc: Alaska
JP Spek is talking about one small area of Alaska, the Kenai Peninsula, which is only about 15,000 sq miles, basically another speck of Alaska albeit a bigger speck than Anchorage.
And 25% survival is high. Most times it seems to fall closer to 15% if that.

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#3106049 - 04/04/12 03:02 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
fishermann222 Offline

"OX"

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 5292
Loc: Bethel, Alaska
Jordan I thkn you are missing the point, we are not saying wolves are the devil, we are saying they do what wolves do. Bears are the same way, both are predators and both are hard on prey species. More and more people are not hunting black bears anymore, so their populations are exploding to the point in many areas you can take 5 of them i believe.
_________________________
I survived the Tman crash of '06

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#3106052 - 04/04/12 03:03 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
FishinHank Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 954
Loc: PWS, AK
That is just the first year. I would be interested to see how many calves make it to adulthood, not the yearling stage.

Bears might be the main source of calf mortality but the hunters here in AK are not taking the calves themselves, like Spek pointed out. Wolves are the main competitor with humans for adult moose.
_________________________
[TravC]: an educated coyote is like a fat girl on the diet....she dont slip up with a cheeseburger but sooner or later she goes for the bigmack

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#3106055 - 04/04/12 03:10 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
fishermann222 Offline

"OX"

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 5292
Loc: Bethel, Alaska
105,000 hunting licenses sold in 09, roughly 7000 moose killed. even if only HALF the hunters who bought licenses moose hunted, the success rate is only 13%. Not sure how you figure everyone who wants a moose gets one.
_________________________
I survived the Tman crash of '06

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#3106060 - 04/04/12 03:11 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Jordan Park Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/20/11
Posts: 0
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Ok good, glad we all see eye to eye.

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#3106061 - 04/04/12 03:11 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
HFT AK Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/26/08
Posts: 397
Loc: Wasilla AK
Many people think Alaska is small. The truth of the matter is the state is a 1/3 of the size of the United States. Denali National Park is bigger then the state of MA. Alaska has more coast line then the west and east coast combined! Many people can not grasp that!!
Anchorage and Eagle River have wolf packs that run the outter fringe of the city. There have been plenty of documented negaitive encounters with wolves, people and pets.

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#3106063 - 04/04/12 03:14 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Jordan Park]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 7
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Jordan Park
Ok good, glad we all see eye to eye.


Not sure I agree with anything you have posted here far so we might have a ways to go before we see eye to eye.

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#3106070 - 04/04/12 03:18 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: fishermann222]
Jordan Park Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/20/11
Posts: 0
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted By: fishermann222
105,000 hunting licenses sold in 09, roughly 7000 moose killed. even if only HALF the hunters who bought licenses moose hunted, the success rate is only 13%. Not sure how you figure everyone who wants a moose gets one.


http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adf...amp;issue_id=94

105,000 hunting licenses sold. Not Moose licenses. All hunting licenses.

How many of those hunters passed on many moose and didn't fill their tag?

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#3106085 - 04/04/12 03:27 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
fishermann222 Offline

"OX"

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 5292
Loc: Bethel, Alaska
Jordan, many (if not most) Alaskan's are not trophy hunters, they are the lower 48 guys, I did not even inlcude those numbers, they purchased 15K additional licenses. Many (if not most) Alaskan's would like to shoot a big one sure, but I don't know guys that pass on a shootable animal when meat is at stake. Maybe some do, but i doubt it is many.



Edited by fishermann222 (04/04/12 03:32 PM)
_________________________
I survived the Tman crash of '06

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#3106096 - 04/04/12 03:31 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: fishermann222]
Cattrax Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 9093
Loc: Wy
I posted this on the tapper talk a couple years ago, I found this elk laying on a small island early in the morning, and I was by there the night before and it wasn't there, so this cow was taken down and eaten in less than 12 hours, and yes I have proof it was a pack of wolves.



some tracks of the wolves.




And the biggest clue was that someone came by earlier than me and seen some wolves eating on the elk, and decided to make sure there was one less eating elk.



And last year here is a cow elk they killed and after they killed it they never ate a single bite of this cow.

_________________________
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
-- Thomas Jefferson





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#3106099 - 04/04/12 03:33 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
fishermann222 Offline

"OX"

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 5292
Loc: Bethel, Alaska
Jordan are you afraid of wolves?
_________________________
I survived the Tman crash of '06

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#3106103 - 04/04/12 03:36 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: fishermann222]
Jordan Park Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/20/11
Posts: 0
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted By: fishermann222
Jordan are you afraid of wolves?


I'm terrified of Wolves.

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