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#3102007 - 04/01/12 11:27 PM Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow.
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Since we have a lot of members down south that have never trapped where wolves are present, thought I'd post a picture of a kill I ran across last trip out. A pack of 10 wolves caught this old cow moose out on the open gravel bar and dragged her to the ground. This kill was not there three day's before but you can see they had pretty well cleaned the moose up by the time I found it. Pretty amazing how much meat they can sometimes eat in such a short time.


If anyone has pictures of wolf kills in their files feel free
to post them here on this thread. They are always interesting
(gruesome maybe, but still interesting).

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#3102013 - 04/01/12 11:38 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
907trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/17/10
Loc: Wasilla, Ak / Central IL
Neat pic Spek, they made short work of her
_________________________
www.itavetoutreach.com

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#3102021 - 04/01/12 11:49 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Dirt Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/01/10
Loc: Armpit, ak
Fortunately, I haven't seen one of those in about eight years.
_________________________
Who is John Galt?

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#3102025 - 04/01/12 11:59 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
That Fool Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/18/12
Loc: Alaska Northwestern
I have only found bones of bunch of moose in the trees before probably five or six that wolves have gotten. Seen one wolf kill of a caribou this winter, had a gruesome looking face on it with its tongue out and eyes wide open. People have found quite a few wolf killed caribou within a few miles of town. Set up some traps and snares around them, only gotten a big lynx, decided I needed better snares and wolf traps so I pulled them out.

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#3102027 - 04/02/12 12:01 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
akpawpincher Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/10
Loc: Alaska
They sure do a number on them! Looks like one of our deer carcasses after the eagles have worked on 'em for a week.
_________________________
Trapping and predator hunting since 1984: "So that others may live."

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#3102040 - 04/02/12 12:21 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Loc: Alaska


Here is a wolf kill I found this winter it was a young bull.

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#3102043 - 04/02/12 12:28 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
akpawpincher Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/10
Loc: Alaska
Borrowed these from the following website...
http://www.outdoorsman.com/articles/Wolves-Are-Inhumane-Beasts/



_________________________
Trapping and predator hunting since 1984: "So that others may live."

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#3102062 - 04/02/12 12:54 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Alaskan Offline
"AMY SUE"

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: Gnome, Alaska
I wish I'd have taken more. I know it isn't any better to see them clean up the carcass, but it sure pissses me off when I find the kills (and there have been lots) where they just took a chunk and left most of the moose! Wish I'd have taken more pics of them!
_________________________
"Goats pee in the water sheep drink."

Life member: NRA, NTA, AkTA, AkFTA, WiTA, MnTA, MoTA, OrTA

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#3102078 - 04/02/12 01:23 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Alaskan]
AK HUNTER Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/31/11
Loc: Fairbanks, AK
Like SpekJones said, it's amazing how quickly a pack of wolves can consume a moose. Here are a few pics of wolf killed moose and a caribou.










Edited by AK HUNTER (04/02/12 01:24 AM)

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#3102085 - 04/02/12 01:36 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Thanks everyone. Lot of good pictures and comments.
Keep them coming.

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#3102092 - 04/02/12 02:20 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska

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#3102106 - 04/02/12 04:00 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Nunamiut Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/26/10
Loc: alaska


Heres a couple of caribou kills I found, the second pic is obviously an older kill.
_________________________
22-250 is all you need...........for everything

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#3102169 - 04/02/12 06:52 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Alaskan]
Wolverinebait Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/29/11
Loc: Tonsina, Alaska
Well, I have a lot of wolf-kill pictures too, altho not on this computer, but I found a couple. As best as I could tell, only 4 wolves killed this younger moose this past winter,... the only wolf sign I saw all winter. They killed it, ate on it for a couple days I think, then left & never came back. Of course right after I set it up, it snowed close to 3 feet,... mad






Originally Posted By: Alaskan
I wish I'd have taken more. I know it isn't any better to see them clean up the carcass, but it sure pissses me off when I find the kills (and there have been lots) where they just took a chunk and left most of the moose! Wish I'd have taken more pics of them!


I know what you mean,... one winter I found 8 wolf-killed moose laying along a 5-mile stretch of river,... and not a bite taken out of any of them,... I have no problem with wolves killing what they need to survive,... but when I find them engaged in rampant & wanton killing/waste like that,... it's time to get involved,....

And here's another one from a couple years ago,... wolves killed it & left, never eating anything,... but finally other critters had drilled a hole into the caboose,... I found it just before trapping season was over, so I didn't set it up.




It's a little tougher to set up a kill site when it's out in the open on a lake with virtually no snow,... and when there is virtually nothing left,... many times they don't come back to it anyway,... at least in my area.




But when they drop one in thicher brush, then you can many times even the score somewhat. It was about -35° when I came up on this, and it was still steaming. Of course, 2 days after I set it up, we got another 2 foot snow dump, but still got 3 of the 6 in this pack.





Edited by Wolverinebait (04/02/12 01:20 PM)
_________________________
If a man is out in the woods,... and says something,...

And no woman heard him,...

Was he still wrong,... ?

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#3102443 - 04/02/12 11:39 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Jordan Park Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/20/11
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
What are the Wolves trying to prove by killing a Moose and not eating it?

Trying to scare other Wolves away, by saying we will kill for the heck of it?

Maybe the Moose died from natural causes?

Maybe we don't understand Wolves entirely, so the purpose of killing a Moose and leaving it, welcomes other predators to come and feast so the Wolves can ambush them in a location that the Wolves have picked?

I'm just thinking out loud.

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#3102516 - 04/02/12 12:29 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Jordan Park]
Nunamiut Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/26/10
Loc: alaska
Originally Posted By: Jordan Park
What are the Wolves trying to prove by killing a Moose and not eating it?

Trying to scare other Wolves away, by saying we will kill for the heck of it?

Maybe the Moose died from natural causes?

Maybe we don't understand Wolves entirely, so the purpose of killing a Moose and leaving it, welcomes other predators to come and feast so the Wolves can ambush them in a location that the Wolves have picked?

I'm just thinking out loud.

We had "problem wolves" in the past roaming up north of our village killing off moose. If you have a big healthy pack made up of mostly older larger pack members killing is a whole lot easier and probably funner. You got to remember that killing is a game to them, just like a dog killing a ground squirrel, chase it, chomp it, leave it, just on a much larger scale. With all the caribou around our village, I seen kills with just the backstrap and hindquarters eaten out, and I even set up on a caribou that was killed and left for the ravens.
_________________________
22-250 is all you need...........for everything

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#3102524 - 04/02/12 12:37 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
martentrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Moved to Fbks, Ak.
Spek, also for the sake of those unfamiliar with wolves...........
How do you know
it was a cow?
it was old?
there were 10 wolves?

MT

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#3102607 - 04/02/12 01:50 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Jordan Park Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/20/11
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Thanks Nunamiut, I didn't know they killed for fun. Makes it even more scary for me to go in the woods.

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#3102645 - 04/02/12 02:22 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
I agree with Nunamiut. Sometimes they kill because they are hungry and
sometimes just for the fun of it. I have seen them kill a lot of moose and
just eat the tongue or maybe not eat any of it, then leave it and never come back. I also found where a pack of 14 traveled a little over 40 miles, killed an adult moose and totally consumed it, bones and all, in about 18 hours time. They were obviously pretty hungry. The only bones left were the parts of the jaw bones with the teeth in them, the hip joint sockets from the pelvic bone
and the hooves (and the toe bones were chewed out of them). The hide was chewed and puckered and most of the hair chewed off it. It takes some powerful jaws to crush up all the vertebra, pelvis and skull bone on a moose like that. That's the only kill I have found that was that well comsumed. Most of the time they do not eat the major bones.
On the questions brought up by Martenpine the moose in the first picture did not have antlers nor antler bases on the skull. This time of year the bulls have all shed their antlers anyway, but you can still tell by looking at the skull if it was a bull or cow. As far as the age of the moose all I can say is that judging from the size of the hooves and the bone structure it was an adult moose, and I have a habit of referring to any female moose
as an "old cow".
Getting a good count on the number of wolves in a pack usually requires either a visual count or you have to follow their track for a ways. A lot of the time they follow single file especially in deeper snow and it is very hard to get a count on them. But on harder snow they will often fan out across the open places and you can get a good count on the tracks. This pack had came down river for a couple of miles and there were several places where it was easy to count tracks.
We don't have deer or caribou in this area but they do change up their diet occasionally;

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#3102741 - 04/02/12 03:58 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Birchcreekkid Offline
trapper

Registered: 07/05/08
Loc: Circle, Alaska
In " Alaska's wolfman " he talks about wolves killing for fun when the caribou can't run through the deep snow but the wolves can run on top of the crust and not break through killing as many caribou as they can and only eating a few.
_________________________
I once held the yardstick of another's perfection, I threw it down and carved my own........




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#3102772 - 04/02/12 04:28 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Jumperzee Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/26/10
Loc: North Central Idaho
Well played Spek....well played.


Edited by Jumperzee (04/02/12 04:28 PM)

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#3102776 - 04/02/12 04:32 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Kusko Offline
"Mr. Mayor"

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Bethel, AK
Originally Posted By: Spek Jones
I agree with Nunamiut. Sometimes they kill because they are hungry and
sometimes just for the fun of it. I have seen them kill a lot of moose and
just eat the tongue or maybe not eat any of it, then leave it and never come back. I also found where a pack of 14 traveled a little over 40 miles, killed an adult moose and totally consumed it, bones and all, in about 18 hours time. They were obviously pretty hungry. The only bones left were the parts of the jaw bones with the teeth in them, the hip joint sockets from the pelvic bone
and the hooves (and the toe bones were chewed out of them). The hide was chewed and puckered and most of the hair chewed off it. It takes some powerful jaws to crush up all the vertebra, pelvis and skull bone on a moose like that. That's the only kill I have found that was that well comsumed. Most of the time they do not eat the major bones.
On the questions brought up by Martenpine the moose in the first picture did not have antlers nor antler bases on the skull. This time of year the bulls have all shed their antlers anyway, but you can still tell by looking at the skull if it was a bull or cow. As far as the age of the moose all I can say is that judging from the size of the hooves and the bone structure it was an adult moose, and I have a habit of referring to any female moose
as an "old cow".
Getting a good count on the number of wolves in a pack usually requires either a visual count or you have to follow their track for a ways. A lot of the time they follow single file especially in deeper snow and it is very hard to get a count on them. But on harder snow they will often fan out across the open places and you can get a good count on the tracks. This pack had came down river for a couple of miles and there were several places where it was easy to count tracks.
We don't have deer or caribou in this area but they do change up their diet occasionally;



Muskox or long haired stripper?
_________________________
"There are three things I have learned never to discuss with people: religion, politics and the Great Pumpkin." Linus Van Pelt

www.alaskafinandfur.com

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#3102783 - 04/02/12 04:40 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
LOL Kusko. Was told it was a pretty good Saddle horse.

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#3102789 - 04/02/12 04:48 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Kusko Offline
"Mr. Mayor"

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Bethel, AK
I often forget that people have horses here in AK. There just isn't many out here.... smile
_________________________
"There are three things I have learned never to discuss with people: religion, politics and the Great Pumpkin." Linus Van Pelt

www.alaskafinandfur.com

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#3102818 - 04/02/12 05:18 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Jumperzee Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/26/10
Loc: North Central Idaho
One of five I found in a small drainage that year. (sorry - no snow)


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#3102909 - 04/02/12 06:36 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
akpawpincher Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/10
Loc: Alaska
Caution, these pics are too graphic to post and might upset some folks, but they are accurate depictions of what wolves do... If anyone has a problem with this please pm me and I will delete the post.

http://saveelk.com/wolf_020.htm
_________________________
Trapping and predator hunting since 1984: "So that others may live."

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#3102998 - 04/02/12 07:27 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Mira Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/17/07
Loc: Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
A single wolf on average needs at least 9 lbs of meat per day to keep it's energy cells charged & they do kill for sport so the overal effect in that knowledge is a pack can out eat its prey in no time when they are left to kill at will.


Edited by Mira Trapper (04/02/12 07:28 PM)
_________________________

Mac Leod Motto

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#3103006 - 04/02/12 07:31 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: akpawpincher]
Mira Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/17/07
Loc: Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Originally Posted By: akpawpincher
Caution, these pics are too graphic to post and might upset some folks, but they are accurate depictions of what wolves do... If anyone has a problem with this please pm me and I will delete the post.

http://saveelk.com/wolf_020.htm



A lot of antis will enjoy looking at those pics because the wolf won AK. Yet if their dog busted a toenail in your best paw set they will poison the trapping well so bad that their whining will be heard in London England. We have been dealt a dirty hand of cards for sure.
_________________________

Mac Leod Motto

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#3103037 - 04/02/12 07:46 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Mira Trapper]
akpawpincher Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/10
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Mira Trapper
Originally Posted By: akpawpincher
Caution, these pics are too graphic to post and might upset some folks, but they are accurate depictions of what wolves do... If anyone has a problem with this please pm me and I will delete the post.

http://saveelk.com/wolf_020.htm



A lot of antis will enjoy looking at those pics because the wolf won AK. Yet if their dog busted a toenail in your best paw set they will poison the trapping well so bad that their whining will be heard in London England. We have been dealt a dirty hand of cards for sure.


You're right Myra, but maybe it will cause a fence sitter to think about the bigger picture and not buy into the sheep in wolf's clothing fantasy the wacko's are spinning.
_________________________
Trapping and predator hunting since 1984: "So that others may live."

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#3103117 - 04/02/12 08:13 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
backwoodsbarry Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/06/11
Loc: wyoming
That happens way more than is ever brought to attention by newspapers or news reporters, funny how that works.
_________________________


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#3103120 - 04/02/12 08:14 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Family Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Looked to be a healthy cow in Homer.
Few days after the kill. Rumen was not frozen yet.



At least the returned later that week.

_________________________
Passion- There are some people who live in a dream world, and their are some who face reality; and then there are those who turn one into the other.

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#3103177 - 04/02/12 08:28 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: akpawpincher]
Mira Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/17/07
Loc: Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Originally Posted By: akpawpincher
Originally Posted By: Mira Trapper
[quote=akpawpincher]Caution, these pics are too graphic to post and might upset some folks, but they are accurate depictions of what wolves do... If anyone has a problem with this please pm me and I will delete the post.

http://saveelk.com/wolf_020.htm



Quote:
A lot of antis will enjoy looking at those pics because the wolf won AK. Yet if their dog busted a toenail in your best paw set they will poison the trapping well so bad that their whining will be heard in London England. We have been dealt a dirty hand of cards for sure.


[qoute] You're right Myra, but maybe it will cause a fence sitter to think about the bigger picture and not buy into the sheep in wolf's clothing fantasy the wacko's are spinning.


Of course your point is valid AK and I hope your loss does make a difference. It is sad that the whining over a dog caught in a trap which could run the next day gets more coverage than having your dogs shredded like they were. You might like to contact Bruce Hemmings (prohuman@daktel.com) He has quite a dossier built up on such cases such as yours.
_________________________

Mac Leod Motto

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#3103184 - 04/02/12 08:30 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Family Trapper]
Mira Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/17/07
Loc: Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Originally Posted By: Family Trapper
Looked to be a healthy cow in Homer.
Few days after the kill. Rumen was not frozen yet.



At least the returned later that week.





Rumen might not have been frozen because they hamstrung it and ate it their leisure by keeping it alive and not eating vital portions to keep the meat from freezing.
_________________________

Mac Leod Motto

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#3103430 - 04/02/12 09:48 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Mira Trapper]
akpawpincher Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/10
Loc: Alaska
[/quote]

Of course your point is valid AK and I hope your loss does make a difference. It is sad that the whining over a dog caught in a trap which could run the next day gets more coverage than having your dogs shredded like they were. You might like to contact Bruce Hemmings (prohuman@daktel.com) He has quite a dossier built up on such cases such as yours. [/quote]

Myra,
Thankfully these were not my dogs, I was just passing it on. If they were my dogs I would be extremely PO'ed.
_________________________
Trapping and predator hunting since 1984: "So that others may live."

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#3103451 - 04/02/12 10:00 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
This is a pic a friend took of a Mt Goat that the wolves killed. The goat
had it's throat ripped out, but they had not ate any of it.

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#3103459 - 04/02/12 10:04 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
akpawpincher Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/10
Loc: Alaska
This news article is about the young female teacher who was killed by wolves while jogging near Chignik Bay in 2010 by a pack of wolves that had been hanging around near the village. The story says "Likely killed by wolves" but it was later determined to be the actual cause of death. She was partially consumed. The second article confirms that wolves were the most likely suspects after Fish and Wildlife killed two of the pack for autopsy and testing.

http://www.newsminer.com/view/full_story...illed-by-wolves

http://www.newsminer.com/view/full_story...ow_left_bullets




_________________________
Trapping and predator hunting since 1984: "So that others may live."

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#3103564 - 04/02/12 10:54 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
killbilly Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/27/06
Loc: orofino ID.
i like when idaho fish and no game claimed the wolfs only killed small game.........
_________________________
thank GOD!! JESUS did'nt tap out

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#3103594 - 04/02/12 11:16 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
trappin moose Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/09/10
Loc: Saskatchewan Canada
I dont have pics this year, but the wolves took a whitetail deer on our land this year. Looks like they cleaned it up over night. Not much left but hair and bone fragments. Ravens and coyotes cleaned up what was left within a couple days. They sure can crunch up those smaller bones. Yikes.
_________________________
Be excellent to eachother

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#3103660 - 04/03/12 12:39 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Loc: Alaska



The top kill was a moose calf. The cow hung around the general vicinity periodically waiting but eventually disappeared.

The bottom kill they cleaned-up as you can see. I back-tracked this kill and it looked like the wolves had ripped into the moose then left it to bleed out and sicken up for several days based on the the blood and beds. Then they came back and finished it off.

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#3103783 - 04/03/12 07:20 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
guideman Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Loc: Northern Michigan
Maybe the wolves can sense that particular animal they kill is sick and that is the reason they dont eat it?
_________________________
shoot straight shoot to kill

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#3103805 - 04/03/12 07:53 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Guideman, there is no big mysterious thing about it. They
are born killers, it's what they do. They enjoy it, and will
kill whenever the opportunity arises, whether it's to secure
a meal or just for the thrill of it. When hunting for them has been
hard and they make a kill they will eat most of it or all of right away.
If hunting has been easy they may only eat a small portion of the kill
or even none of it, and then travel on. From there it depends on how
the hunting is for them the next few days. If they make another kill
right away they may not come back to the previous one, but if they don't
succeed in making a kill and they are getting hungry they may swing back
by and chew on it a while. Sometimes that may be the next day, sometimes
they may come back a month later and gnaw on what ever the scavengers
have left, or they may never come back at all. Point is, they kill when the opportunity arises. How hungry
they are at the time dictates how much or how little they eat of it.




Edited by Spek Jones (04/03/12 08:20 AM)

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#3103814 - 04/03/12 08:04 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Mira Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/17/07
Loc: Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Bingo. The world doesn't like to admit those traits but the ARA poster Children...Wolves, Orca's & seals all kill for pleasure if the opportunity arises.


Edited by Mira Trapper (04/03/12 08:05 AM)
_________________________

Mac Leod Motto

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#3103911 - 04/03/12 09:29 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
backwoodsbarry Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/06/11
Loc: wyoming
Ha I just read about a mt lion attacking the guy in Cali, was that before or after all the tree Huggers were trying to get the f&g biologist fired for going on a lion hunt in Idaho?
_________________________


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#3104109 - 04/03/12 11:43 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
UgashikBob Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/30/08
Loc: Alaska Bristol Bay
Regarding the question of why they kill and not consume. I have a in a couple cases seen where the kill was done for what I think was a training exercise for the younger members of the pack.

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#3104122 - 04/03/12 11:50 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Loc: Alaska
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=tMC7aZNXnL8#t=31s

Here is a video of a wolf pack in Denali killing a moose calf in the water despite the cow's best efforts to defend it.

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#3104124 - 04/03/12 11:52 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
That may well be UB, but in reality I think the education of the
younger wolves is constant and ongoing. Every kill is a training session so to speak. The older adults get in there and show the
younger ones how to rip and slash and the best angles to work it to avoid getting stomped.

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#3104147 - 04/03/12 12:16 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Hornhunter Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/29/06
Loc: Maine
Quote:
Maybe the wolves can sense that particular animal they kill is sick and that is the reason they dont eat it?
_________________________


That's Kind of funny to me as a Maine biologist at a December meeting on predation (coyotes and deer)said that coyotes sence the sick ones and go after those and not the healthy ones!--This guy is a protectionist to the max.

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#3104157 - 04/03/12 12:26 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Dirt Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/01/10
Loc: Armpit, ak
Okay, Let's not go to the other extreme and project human attributes to wildlife. Wolves surplus kill because it is a survival trait that has allowed the species to survive for thousands of years. Better to have too much food on the ground then not enough.
_________________________
Who is John Galt?

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#3104165 - 04/03/12 12:30 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Loc: McGrath, AK
Most of us have likely seen evidence of "excess killing" by wolves. My take on it is that some behavior of the target trips a trigger in the wolf that puts them into that hunt/kill mode whether they are hungry or not. We may never understand it. We of course don't like it but we shouldn't, IMO, condem the wolves for doing what comes naturally. Probably the best way to influence that behavior is to control numbers of both wolves and prey species.

If we point the finger at the wolf and lay blame, we are guilty of imparting conscious decision making ability to them. I think instinct rules, rather than reasoning ability.


I also believe that any objective observer knows that wolves target whichever animal that presents the right situation to kill. To believe they single out the sick, lame, and lazy is absurd. If that was true, we would need to conclude that most or all of the moose/caribou etc, were somehow sick or disabled when they were killed.
_________________________
Mean As Nails

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#3104186 - 04/03/12 12:40 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
That Fool Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/18/12
Loc: Alaska Northwestern
Wolves are smart, they don't just chase animals that are sick or disabled, they herd them and tire them out then go for the kill, especially when the temperatures are low, animals usually freeze their lungs well trying to run away. I have seen a wolf chase a caribou then another one came out and took over the chase and let the other one rest. I tried reaching them but they made it to the trees before I reached them. Fortunately for the caribou, it got to see another day, I came across it the day after and harvested it.

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#3104209 - 04/03/12 12:50 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
decoy Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/24/07
Loc: north Idaho
Killbilly, never heard an offical IFG statement saying that. If a loose cannon CO said that it wouldn't surprise me. very ignorant statement.
_________________________
Hunt with your Kids, not for them.
>>>----->


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#3104243 - 04/03/12 01:11 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Dirt Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/01/10
Loc: Armpit, ak
Actually if wolves were really smart they would bury their kills to protect them from scavengers. Not smart IMO.
_________________________
Who is John Galt?

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#3104244 - 04/03/12 01:12 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
That Fool Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/18/12
Loc: Alaska Northwestern
bury them would be a waste of energy no guarantee that other animals wont dig them up and eat them

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#3104250 - 04/03/12 01:17 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: That Fool]
Dirt Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/01/10
Loc: Armpit, ak
Originally Posted By: That Fool
bury them would be a waste of energy no guarantee that other animals wont dig them up and eat them


I'm thinking in terms of 6 bald eagles and 25 ravens and 13 magpies and 4 gray jays. smile
_________________________
Who is John Galt?

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#3104254 - 04/03/12 01:20 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
That Fool Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/18/12
Loc: Alaska Northwestern
Haven't many eagles around winter time here, ravens don't really eat too much of the kills i have found, no magpies around either, and gray jays don't seem to leave the trees onto the open country to eat carcasses of caribou here

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#3104262 - 04/03/12 01:24 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Loc: Alaska
Oh brother.

Where ar't thou...


Edited by white17 (04/03/12 01:25 PM)

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#3104280 - 04/03/12 01:35 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Loc: Alaska
Dirt makes a good point.
The same point was made by Rick Sinnot's predecessor Dave Harkness. A woman expressed distress over the incidental take of 'highly intelligent' porpoise in tuna seines. Harkness asked her why the porpoise don't just jump out of the net if they are so intelligent. I miss that guy...

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#3104294 - 04/03/12 01:44 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
That Fool Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/18/12
Loc: Alaska Northwestern
sounds like an awesome guy goot sense of humor

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#3104296 - 04/03/12 01:46 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Loc: Alaska
He was being serious.

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#3104321 - 04/03/12 02:02 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Jumperzee Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/26/10
Loc: North Central Idaho
All photos taken in Idaho in the winter of 2006-7. I got these in an e-mail that was being circulated to expose just what was happening to the elk. Excerpt from the e-mail: The large cavities on the rear of the cow elk are where the fetus was removed. The photographer found and documented that the wolf always ate the fetus first and sometimes the cow was still found alive after the fetus was removed and eaten.
The photographer also found that many elk were killed in surplus, or "Sport Killed", and left to rot. During the winter when the elk are driven down low and concentrated along the river, they are easy prey and the wolves just keep killing both old and young.














to be continued.....


Edited by Jumperzee (04/03/12 02:15 PM)

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#3104324 - 04/03/12 02:05 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Jumperzee Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/26/10
Loc: North Central Idaho
and continuing along....












to be continued

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#3104330 - 04/03/12 02:10 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Jumperzee Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/26/10
Loc: North Central Idaho
and further.....














And we wonder where all the elk went.....

You know, I don't hate the wolves....but I'd sure like have a "chat" with the people that would look at this and not see anything wrong. The same folks who would villify us for trapping and hunting wolves....

Now my BP is up....

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#3104346 - 04/03/12 02:28 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
akpawpincher Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/10
Loc: Alaska
And that is just the tip of the iceberg JZ! Unprecedented waste and carnage. Where is the empathy from the fanatics for these animals? I have yet to find any. It would appear that the only emotion most of the anti nuts have is hatred of humans and indifference to the pain and suffering caused by their mascotts..
_________________________
Trapping and predator hunting since 1984: "So that others may live."

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#3104651 - 04/03/12 06:00 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: akpawpincher]
Gen2600 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/10
Loc: Alaska
Here is an article worth a read:
Angered Sportsmen to gather at Missoula Courthouse

It starts out:
"Many Montana, Idaho and Wyoming residents who have been adversely affected or threatened by an ever growing wolf population in the Northern Rockies have come to the realization that this issue will never be resolved by the presiding judge of the U.S. District Court in Missoula, MT. Any time that Judge Donald Molloy schedules a court session to hear arguments from staunch environmental groups wanting more protection for wolves, and thousands of more wolves on the landscape, sportsmen and those residents who have come to appreciate a rich wildlife heritage in this region of the country know they are about to lose – again."

And contains the following pictures (sorry if they are a bit rough)



_________________________
Username is Gen2600 but you can call me Travis!

Ben Cochrum: "I should have packed an axe"

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#3104900 - 04/03/12 08:23 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Hopefully somebody put that moose out of it's misery. Otherwise it
died a slow death.

As pretty much all the pictures here demonstrate, nature is cruel. There's no getting around it. There's also no getting around the fact that any given location can only sustain a given number of predators. When there is too many predators for the amount of prey available you will eventually have no prey AND no predators. Both entities will be gone or reduced to very few surviving numbers, and the area will be essentially void of both. When it gets this way, recovery is a long slow process.
If there is to be healthy populations of both then predator control
is essential. Nowhere have I seen it proposed by wildlife managers,
hunters, nor trappers, to exterminate the wolves. To the vast
majority extermination is unacceptable. But at the same time it is necessary to keep predator populations at a controlled level, for the benefit of both the predators and the prey species. IMO, proposing the extermination of the wolves would be an extremist view, and over-protection of them is also an extremist view. Common sense management lies somewhere in between.

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#3105297 - 04/04/12 01:04 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Ron Daranger Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/21/10
Loc: wisconsin
So..... I am confused. Are we supposed to be wolf haters, or moose and carabu lovers? A wolf gets a chance to kill more than he needs, and keeps some on ice for later. Doesn't sound much differant than what we do.Any comments?

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#3105304 - 04/04/12 01:13 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Aknative Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/10/09
Loc: Fairbanks AK
I don't think they're saying either way, just showing what is. Without management, either enforced by an exterior power or self imposed, a successful predator is easily capable of eating itself out of house and home.
_________________________
Rumors of my assimilation have been greatly exaggerated.

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#3105305 - 04/04/12 01:15 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
I'm more inclined to take them for what they are and not worship
one or the other. When emotions take control sound management goes
out the window.

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#3105307 - 04/04/12 01:23 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
alaska viking Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/25/07
Loc: juneau, alaska
I will comment. and disgusting as some of these pictures are, they are certainly what happens in the "wild". I can only hope that those on this site understand and accept that. While the wolves do what they do, we also do what we do. Why are we persecuted, and they are adored?
We do what we do with the utmost regard for less suffering and humanity, and predators have no idea what that may be, yet we, as trappers and hunters, doing the same thing,(killing animals), are persecuted. Our methods and means are far more gentle and humane than nature as a whole. Let's face it. Most of us have a conscience, and act accordingly. Death effects most, if not all of us. If I can borrow a coin from Hiemo, "It's hard, sometimes".
But we deal with it. It's called reality. Life, and death. I'm not sure what is so hard about that.
_________________________
Intellectual capacity is no guarantee against being dead wrong.
Carl Sagan.

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#3105310 - 04/04/12 01:26 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
FishinHank Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/25/08
Loc: PWS, AK
Effective management involves both the prey species as well as the predator species, not one or the other. The natural balance is a fickle thing, and when we manage one but not the other there are very serious consequences.
_________________________
[TravC]: an educated coyote is like a fat girl on the diet....she dont slip up with a cheeseburger but sooner or later she goes for the bigmack

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#3105327 - 04/04/12 02:09 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Ron Daranger]
akpawpincher Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/10
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Ron Daranger
So..... I am confused. Are we supposed to be wolf haters, or moose and carabu lovers? A wolf gets a chance to kill more than he needs, and keeps some on ice for later. Doesn't sound much differant than what we do.Any comments?


I'm sure a few folks hate wolves because of the damage they have caused, but I'm not one of them. They are incredibly beautiful creatures that have every right to be protected as a species from total extermination in habitat which can support them. The rub lies in their natural tendency to eat themselves (and us) out of house and home. I think Spek summed it up perfectly in his post about the need to properly manage wolves and predators in general. Moose (and caribou) need love too. smile
_________________________
Trapping and predator hunting since 1984: "So that others may live."

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#3105336 - 04/04/12 02:52 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
FishinHank Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/25/08
Loc: PWS, AK
The excess wolf kills also take food off my table, along with food off of the tables of other families. Wolves do not have human attributes, they do not have rational thoughts. They work off instinct and their instincts tell them to kill what they can find, whether or not they are going to eat it. Sure the carcasses of their kills feeds a wide variety of furbearers and birds, but when they keep me from putting meat on my table I draw the line.
_________________________
[TravC]: an educated coyote is like a fat girl on the diet....she dont slip up with a cheeseburger but sooner or later she goes for the bigmack

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#3105348 - 04/04/12 03:22 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
FishinHank Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/25/08
Loc: PWS, AK
I would agree that we have some attributes that wolves have, in that we are predators. But we are also conscience of the rest of the prey population as well. I also look forward to the day when I can put some wolves to rest.
_________________________
[TravC]: an educated coyote is like a fat girl on the diet....she dont slip up with a cheeseburger but sooner or later she goes for the bigmack

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#3105683 - 04/04/12 10:31 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: akpawpincher]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Loc: McGrath, AK
Originally Posted By: akpawpincher
Originally Posted By: Ron Daranger
So..... I am confused. Are we supposed to be wolf haters, or moose and carabu lovers? A wolf gets a chance to kill more than he needs, and keeps some on ice for later. Doesn't sound much differant than what we do.Any comments?


I'm sure a few folks hate wolves because of the damage they have caused, but I'm not one of them. They are incredibly beautiful creatures that have every right to be protected as a species from total extermination in habitat which can support them. The rub lies in their natural tendency to eat themselves (and us) out of house and home. I think Spek summed it up perfectly in his post about the need to properly manage wolves and predators in general. Moose (and caribou) need love too. smile



X3
_________________________
Mean As Nails

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#3105778 - 04/04/12 11:19 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Mira Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/17/07
Loc: Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
I don't fault the wolf for being a wolf. I do recognize the kills they impart upon their prey to one of the most cruel deaths in nature outside of contagion, winter kill & starvation. Humans are the only controlling agent in nature that does use humane standards. Nature nor God worries over how death occurs as long as the next generation maintains health because of the individuals of a species death. Once populations explode cruel deaths rule supreme and it is usually starvstyion or Contagion that rules than. Bottom line is hunters & trappers are the only animal seeking & able to provide instantaneous and least suffering in nature. We are hated for that ability by the folks that still cry when they hear Bambi's dad was shot as if Bambi senior cared that he had a spawn named Bambi. Bambiology is killing nature.
_________________________

Mac Leod Motto

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#3105787 - 04/04/12 11:26 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Mira Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/17/07
Loc: Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Originally Posted By: Spek Jones
Hopefully somebody put that moose out of it's misery. Otherwise it
died a slow death.


If it was shredded in Denali Park Alaska,Spek, it was left to the wolves to finish off because Denali is a Preservation operation. Wardens are not allowed to interfer no matter how grotesque the damage is to such an animal as that moose . Also of note is the biggest killer of wolves in Denali is other wolves by a large margin. If humans through hunting and trapping are allowed to use Conservation management the land will carry more wolves and more ungulates because we reduce the natural cycle of boom , bust & starvation.
_________________________

Mac Leod Motto

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#3105880 - 04/04/12 01:07 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: FishinHank]
Jordan Park Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/20/11
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted By: FishinHank
The excess wolf kills also take food off my table, along with food off of the tables of other families. Wolves do not have human attributes, they do not have rational thoughts. They work off instinct and their instincts tell them to kill what they can find, whether or not they are going to eat it. Sure the carcasses of their kills feeds a wide variety of furbearers and birds, but when they keep me from putting meat on my table I draw the line.


Have you ever gone through a moose season in Alaska and didn't get your moose because the numbers were down?

Being picky doesn't count. Example: Seeing 10 Moose while hunting and not shooting one cause the antlers weren't big enough, and then not tagging out can't be blamed on the low population of Moose.

I'm not trying to be rude by the way.

In Alaska, is the Moose population decreasing? Due to Wolves?

From what I've read, the Moose population is very strong, and no matter what the Wolves are doing to their population, it's very easy for someone to shoot a moose to provide for the family kitchen table.

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#3105888 - 04/04/12 01:11 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Top Jimmy Offline
"Assistant Speling Zcar"

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Alaska, USA
Dirt, you want to take this one? Maybe one of you Kenai or McGrath guys?

-TJ
_________________________
Some people are like slinkies - not really good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.


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#3105903 - 04/04/12 01:20 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
FishinHank Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/25/08
Loc: PWS, AK
I have personally never taken a moose, I have been working seasonally and never had the freezer space to keep it. But I have talked with other hunters and pretty much across the board they are seeing less and less total numbers of moose every year, not just legal bulls. I cannot say the exact reason why that is as I am not a biologist for the state and I don't have the same data they have. It all depends on what part of alaska you are in, some places are seeing a boom, others a bust. I wouldn't call it a bust in unit 13, but if the hunters are used to seeing more moose and the numbers they see every year keep dropping, what is the cause? Could be bad weather, over hunting, or predation.

We are required by law to be picky about the moose we choose to take up here. If we could kill any moose (like the wolves do), way more families would have meat. But that isn't a sound management plan. I know my buddy went 3 years between getting moose and he hunted hard. This was in an area that has a good amount of predator control also (unit 13).
_________________________
[TravC]: an educated coyote is like a fat girl on the diet....she dont slip up with a cheeseburger but sooner or later she goes for the bigmack

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#3105907 - 04/04/12 01:22 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Jordan Park]
Dirt Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/01/10
Loc: Armpit, ak
Originally Posted By: Jordan Park
Originally Posted By: FishinHank
The excess wolf kills also take food off my table, along with food off of the tables of other families. Wolves do not have human attributes, they do not have rational thoughts. They work off instinct and their instincts tell them to kill what they can find, whether or not they are going to eat it. Sure the carcasses of their kills feeds a wide variety of furbearers and birds, but when they keep me from putting meat on my table I draw the line.


Have you ever gone through a moose season in Alaska and didn't get your moose because the numbers were down?

Being picky doesn't count. Example: Seeing 10 Moose while hunting and not shooting one cause the antlers weren't big enough, and then not tagging out can't be blamed on the low population of Moose.

I'm not trying to be rude by the way.

In Alaska, is the Moose population decreasing? Due to Wolves?

From what I've read, the Moose population is very strong, and no matter what the Wolves are doing to their population, it's very easy for someone to shoot a moose to provide for the family kitchen table.


This is an easy one. Yes! on all three questions.
_________________________
Who is John Galt?

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#3105919 - 04/04/12 01:34 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Jordan Park]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Loc: McGrath, AK
Originally Posted By: Jordan Park
Originally Posted By: FishinHank
The excess wolf kills also take food off my table, along with food off of the tables of other families. Wolves do not have human attributes, they do not have rational thoughts. They work off instinct and their instincts tell them to kill what they can find, whether or not they are going to eat it. Sure the carcasses of their kills feeds a wide variety of furbearers and birds, but when they keep me from putting meat on my table I draw the line.


Have you ever gone through a moose season in Alaska and didn't get your moose because the numbers were down?

Being picky doesn't count. Example: Seeing 10 Moose while hunting and not shooting one cause the antlers weren't big enough, and then not tagging out can't be blamed on the low population of Moose.

I'm not trying to be rude by the way.

In Alaska, is the Moose population decreasing? Due to Wolves?

From what I've read, the Moose population is very strong, and no matter what the Wolves are doing to their population, it's very easy for someone to shoot a moose to provide for the family kitchen table.



The moose season in my area has been closed for 5 years or more. Before the predator control program got started, a moose was hard to find. They are slowly coming back now that the wolves have been reduced.
_________________________
Mean As Nails

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#3105929 - 04/04/12 01:43 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Jordan Park]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Jordan Park
From what I've read, the Moose population is very strong, and no matter what the Wolves are doing to their population, it's very easy for someone to shoot a moose to provide for the family kitchen table.


Jordan can you tell us where you read this? I'm not calling you out I would just like to know your source.

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#3105949 - 04/04/12 01:55 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
fishermann222 Offline

"OX"

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: Bethel, Alaska
Our season just reopened two years ago after a 5 year closure. Jordan you do realize the size of Alaska right?
_________________________
I survived the Tman crash of '06

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#3105968 - 04/04/12 02:06 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
akpawpincher Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/10
Loc: Alaska
My last moose hunt ended with no moose seen... Plenty of wolf tracks and howling in the night though. Not sure where all the moose went....hmmmmmmm
_________________________
Trapping and predator hunting since 1984: "So that others may live."

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#3105995 - 04/04/12 02:26 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Our moose calf survival rate here is almost zero right now, Jordan. Hunters don't shoot moose calves. Wolves and bears are killing them about as fast as they hit the ground.
The killing of the majority of the calves pretty much takes place during May and June. The other ten months of the year they mostly feed on adult moose. With basically no calves surviving for recruitment, how does that work out for you?

Restrictions on what constitutes a legal bull here for humans to harvest has been applied to the point where last season in
this subunit, I was told by the local biologist, the total harvest was 15 moose. This in an area that should support an
annual harvest of at least 400 bulls.

Our department of fish and game recognizes a desperate need
for predator control in this unit, but their efforts are
being hampered by an ignorant and vocal minority.

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#3106015 - 04/04/12 02:39 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: drasselt]
Jordan Park Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/20/11
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted By: drasselt
Originally Posted By: Jordan Park
From what I've read, the Moose population is very strong, and no matter what the Wolves are doing to their population, it's very easy for someone to shoot a moose to provide for the family kitchen table.


Jordan can you tell us where you read this? I'm not calling you out I would just like to know your source.


I did alot of searching on google about the moose in alaska. I don't know how to post the websites on here but I can copy and paste some of what I read:

The Alaska subspecies of moose (Alces alces gigas) is the largest in the world; adult males weigh 1,200 to 1,600 pounds (542–725 kg), and adult females weigh 800 to 1,300 pounds (364–591 kg)[9] Alaska's substantial moose population is controlled by predators such as bears and wolves, which prey mainly on vulnerable calves, as well as by hunters.[9]
Because of the abundance of moose in Alaska, moose-human interactions are frequent. Moose have played an important role in the state's history; professional hunters once supplied moose meat to feed mining camps. Athabascan people have hunted them to provide food as well as supplies for clothing and tools.[9] They are now hunted frequently by big game hunters, who take 6,000 to 8,000 moose per year.[9] Today, moose are often seen feeding and grazing along the state's highways. Moose can sometimes cause problems, as when they eat crops, stand in the middle of airfields, or dangerously cross the path of cars and trains.[9]

Wildlife abounds in Alaska. Anchorage is probably the only city in the United States that has a moose problem; there are hundreds within the city limits. There has even been talk of declaring a bowhunting season for them in the city's Hillside suburb. Grizzly and black bears have been shot within the city in recent years, too.

These are just a couple of hints that made me think the moose population in alaska is good, nevermind a bunch of posts i've read on trapperman about trappers seeing multiple moose on their lines.

I wasn't trying to start a huge debate, I was just simply wondering how people in alaska were being deprived of the protein in their diet due to wolves.

Jordan

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#3106025 - 04/04/12 02:46 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
FishinHank Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/25/08
Loc: PWS, AK
If you can copy and paste the content of the website I think it would be pretty easy to copy and paste the address of the site. I am interested to see the source of the information.

To me it sounds like the information describes the area around Anchorage. The population is high around anchorage because they aren't allowed to get harvested. We saw a cow with a calf that was eating the shrubs at the executive suites hotel on spenard this past weekend. We pulled into the opposite side of the parking lot from the moose to avoid them and the calf walked right up to the truck. Mom was not happy about that, we had to start up the truck and move just so we could get out.
_________________________
[TravC]: an educated coyote is like a fat girl on the diet....she dont slip up with a cheeseburger but sooner or later she goes for the bigmack

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#3106029 - 04/04/12 02:49 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Loc: Alaska
The moose are relatively safe in populated areas since they don't get hammered by predators. Moose in Anc only end up on someone's table when they get hit by a car. Anchorage is a tiny speck on the map. There are very very few roads in Alaska so very very limited access.

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#3106041 - 04/04/12 02:57 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Jordan Park Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/20/11
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted By: Spek Jones
Our moose calf survival rate here is almost zero right now, Jordan. Hunters don't shoot moose calves. Wolves and bears are killing them about as fast as they hit the ground.
The killing of the majority of the calves pretty much takes place during May and June. The other ten months of the year they mostly feed on adult moose. With basically no calves surviving for recruitment, how does that work out for you?

Restrictions on what constitutes a legal bull here for humans to harvest has been applied to the point where last season in
this subunit, I was told by the local biologist, the total harvest was 15 moose. This in an area that should support an
annual harvest of at least 400 bulls.

Our department of fish and game recognizes a desperate need
for predator control in this unit, but their efforts are
being hampered by an ignorant and vocal minority.



http://www.adn.com/2010/05/23/1291310/calving-season-alaska-moose-population.html

This site says 25% of calves survive not almost 0. Although 25% is very low.

Also fishinhank, i didn't know you could copy and paste the address of the site. I just did now for the one above. It says bears are the major reason of calf mortality. Compare the number of calves killed each year by bears to the number of moose killed by wolves where they kill for fun and leave the moose to rot.

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#3106048 - 04/04/12 03:02 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Loc: Alaska
JP Spek is talking about one small area of Alaska, the Kenai Peninsula, which is only about 15,000 sq miles, basically another speck of Alaska albeit a bigger speck than Anchorage.
And 25% survival is high. Most times it seems to fall closer to 15% if that.

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#3106049 - 04/04/12 03:02 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
fishermann222 Offline

"OX"

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: Bethel, Alaska
Jordan I thkn you are missing the point, we are not saying wolves are the devil, we are saying they do what wolves do. Bears are the same way, both are predators and both are hard on prey species. More and more people are not hunting black bears anymore, so their populations are exploding to the point in many areas you can take 5 of them i believe.
_________________________
I survived the Tman crash of '06

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#3106052 - 04/04/12 03:03 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
FishinHank Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/25/08
Loc: PWS, AK
That is just the first year. I would be interested to see how many calves make it to adulthood, not the yearling stage.

Bears might be the main source of calf mortality but the hunters here in AK are not taking the calves themselves, like Spek pointed out. Wolves are the main competitor with humans for adult moose.
_________________________
[TravC]: an educated coyote is like a fat girl on the diet....she dont slip up with a cheeseburger but sooner or later she goes for the bigmack

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#3106055 - 04/04/12 03:10 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
fishermann222 Offline

"OX"

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: Bethel, Alaska
105,000 hunting licenses sold in 09, roughly 7000 moose killed. even if only HALF the hunters who bought licenses moose hunted, the success rate is only 13%. Not sure how you figure everyone who wants a moose gets one.
_________________________
I survived the Tman crash of '06

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#3106060 - 04/04/12 03:11 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Jordan Park Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/20/11
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Ok good, glad we all see eye to eye.

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#3106061 - 04/04/12 03:11 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
HFT AK Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/26/08
Loc: Wasilla AK
Many people think Alaska is small. The truth of the matter is the state is a 1/3 of the size of the United States. Denali National Park is bigger then the state of MA. Alaska has more coast line then the west and east coast combined! Many people can not grasp that!!
Anchorage and Eagle River have wolf packs that run the outter fringe of the city. There have been plenty of documented negaitive encounters with wolves, people and pets.

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#3106063 - 04/04/12 03:14 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Jordan Park]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Jordan Park
Ok good, glad we all see eye to eye.


Not sure I agree with anything you have posted here far so we might have a ways to go before we see eye to eye.

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#3106070 - 04/04/12 03:18 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: fishermann222]
Jordan Park Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/20/11
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted By: fishermann222
105,000 hunting licenses sold in 09, roughly 7000 moose killed. even if only HALF the hunters who bought licenses moose hunted, the success rate is only 13%. Not sure how you figure everyone who wants a moose gets one.


http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adf...amp;issue_id=94

105,000 hunting licenses sold. Not Moose licenses. All hunting licenses.

How many of those hunters passed on many moose and didn't fill their tag?

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#3106085 - 04/04/12 03:27 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
fishermann222 Offline

"OX"

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: Bethel, Alaska
Jordan, many (if not most) Alaskan's are not trophy hunters, they are the lower 48 guys, I did not even inlcude those numbers, they purchased 15K additional licenses. Many (if not most) Alaskan's would like to shoot a big one sure, but I don't know guys that pass on a shootable animal when meat is at stake. Maybe some do, but i doubt it is many.



Edited by fishermann222 (04/04/12 03:32 PM)
_________________________
I survived the Tman crash of '06

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#3106096 - 04/04/12 03:31 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: fishermann222]
Cattrax Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/28/06
Loc: Wy
I posted this on the tapper talk a couple years ago, I found this elk laying on a small island early in the morning, and I was by there the night before and it wasn't there, so this cow was taken down and eaten in less than 12 hours, and yes I have proof it was a pack of wolves.



some tracks of the wolves.




And the biggest clue was that someone came by earlier than me and seen some wolves eating on the elk, and decided to make sure there was one less eating elk.



And last year here is a cow elk they killed and after they killed it they never ate a single bite of this cow.

_________________________
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
-- Thomas Jefferson





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#3106099 - 04/04/12 03:33 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
fishermann222 Offline

"OX"

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: Bethel, Alaska
Jordan are you afraid of wolves?
_________________________
I survived the Tman crash of '06

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#3106103 - 04/04/12 03:36 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: fishermann222]
Jordan Park Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/20/11
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted By: fishermann222
Jordan are you afraid of wolves?


I'm terrified of Wolves.

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#3106104 - 04/04/12 03:37 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
fishermann222 Offline

"OX"

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: Bethel, Alaska
Ok, are you terrified because they might kill you or because they will eat you?
_________________________
I survived the Tman crash of '06

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#3106129 - 04/04/12 03:55 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Jordan Park Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/20/11
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Never looked at it that way before, but I would say I'm scared that they will kill me.

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#3106421 - 04/04/12 07:13 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Gray dog, no limit under the trapping regs. There is a 5 wolf limit under the hunting regs.

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#3106734 - 04/04/12 10:00 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
alaska viking Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/25/07
Loc: juneau, alaska
First thing I noticed is that Jordan's "statistics" came from the good old ADN.
One of my favorite quotes is the definition of statistics: "Numbers that have been tortured into submission."
_________________________
Intellectual capacity is no guarantee against being dead wrong.
Carl Sagan.

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#3107134 - 04/05/12 08:13 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Mira Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/17/07
Loc: Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
http://cryingwolfmovie.com/reviews/#comment-30 A much watch in order to get some real sense of how romanticing one animal above all others is cruel & unjust in the wolf's case.





There shouldn't be a sane person in the world that should believe wolf trapping & hunting is not a necessity in Wildlife management for the benefit of a whole ecosystem. Jordan needs also to know that wolves are hunted by air because they must be killed in larger numbers in remote areas or the net result is collapse of ungulates in those remote areas from over hunting from packs of 35 animals which require 9-10 lbs of flesh a day per wolfjust to survive. Certain areas of Alaska were so hard hit by wolf predation that the packs had to be reduced by what ever means possible.
_________________________

Mac Leod Motto

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#3107443 - 04/05/12 12:14 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Jordan Park]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Originally Posted By: Jordan Park
Thanks Nunamiut, I didn't know they killed for fun. Makes it even more scary for me to go in the woods.


Quote: "I'm terrified of wolves" end quote.

Quote: "...I'm scared that they will kill me" end quote.

IMO, anyone that goes tramping around out in the woods without
some form of protection is simply asking for trouble. There is
several species of animals out there that can easily kill a human, and particularly an unarmed human. Here on the Kenai brown bear, black bear, moose or wolves can take you out under the right circumstances. That's just the way it is, and so you have to respect that. But being terrified to go out in the woods because of any or all of these animals is an irrational fear. Arm yourself and go on about your business. Just be prepared to defend yourself if the need arise's.

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#3107500 - 04/05/12 01:06 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
otterman Offline



Registered: 12/24/06
Loc: SW Alaska
I live and hunt in one of the few areas in the state where we can kill any bull. I can personally say I have seen a big decrease in the moose population. I do not remember the last time I killed a really big bull. Normally it is a 2 or 3 yr old with a rack of 36 inches or less. Most of the heads with the racks have ended up in the bottom of the river. You can't eat antlers and they weigh more than I care to take home.
30 yrs ago if a wolf was killed in the village I lived in it was big news and everyone went for a look. Today it isn't a matter of if one will be killed but how many will I get and how many more will my nephews get. This year between the three of us the total was around 15-18 as best I can remember. Our moose populations has dropped. It use to be in the spring pretty much every cow had two calfs and by fall we saw 7-8 calf's per 10 cows. Now it is more like 3 calf's per 10 cows, wolves are probably equally responsible for this as bears in my opinion anyway.
One more thing, I do not buy red meat I can't afford the prices they want for it. Moose and an occasional caribou are our only source of red meat. I don't hate wolves or bears I enjoy them, and I enjoy hunting and trapping them, If we wipe them all out I loose that enjoyment, but there has to be a balance that allows me to provide the meat my family needs
_________________________

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#3107576 - 04/05/12 02:15 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Gen2600 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/10
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Spek Jones
IMO, anyone that goes tramping around out in the woods without
some form of protection is simply asking for trouble. There is
several species of animals out there that can easily kill a human, and particularly an unarmed human. Here on the Kenai brown bear, black bear, moose or wolves can take you out under the right circumstances. That's just the way it is, and so you have to respect that. But being terrified to go out in the woods because of any or all of these animals is an irrational fear. Arm yourself and go on about your business. Just be prepared to defend yourself if the need arise's.


That's the truth. I believe irrational fear comes from not taking the time to educate ones self about whatever source the fear is stemming from. When you do learn about the woods and the animals who reside there you learn about their capabilities and where you fit into the equation. A wise man respects the animals and the woods and prepares for it. When he treats it with that respect his life span goes way up. That idea can be extrapolated to most anything, notably cars. I know that cars can kill if mistreated, I respect them, understand them and I've even had friends killed by them - but I'm sure not going to not drive one out of fear.
_________________________
Username is Gen2600 but you can call me Travis!

Ben Cochrum: "I should have packed an axe"

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#3107870 - 04/05/12 06:09 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
otterman Offline



Registered: 12/24/06
Loc: SW Alaska
Originally Posted By: Spek Jones


IMO, anyone that goes tramping around out in the woods without
some form of protection is simply asking for trouble.

I use to checking traps in the fall time after dark till one night I had a fox baking and making noise at me before I made the dispatch. All the while I was looking over my shoulder at the fresh brownie tracks in the snow. Never again with out a gun!
_________________________

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#3108627 - 04/06/12 02:07 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
akpawpincher Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/04/10
Loc: Alaska
I always have a gun, but it often seems so inadequate...lol.



I laugh at wolves... laugh
_________________________
Trapping and predator hunting since 1984: "So that others may live."

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#3109004 - 04/06/12 10:15 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
smile yep.

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#3109647 - 04/06/12 06:37 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
yukontrapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/11/09
Loc: Galena Alaska USA
APP-holy macro bud that must mus be a squatch :-)

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#3109680 - 04/06/12 07:03 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: fishermann222]
trappin moose Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/09/10
Loc: Saskatchewan Canada
Originally Posted By: fishermann222
Jordan I thkn you are missing the point, we are not saying wolves are the devil, we are saying they do what wolves do.


Fooseball is da debil!! smile (sorry, just had a movie flashback from the Waterboy)
_________________________
Be excellent to eachother

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#3109955 - 04/06/12 09:18 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
RdFx Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Wisconsin
Two years ago when i went up by Denali a ranger or what ever you call the woods cops mentioned to me they were trying to knock the wolf population down around park so as to get the goat population back up... anyone on here from Denali area trapping or hunting the wolves in that area. From what i could see one [Please excuse my language... I'm an idiot] of an area to access and find the wolves.

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#3109993 - 04/06/12 09:35 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Boco Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/08/11
Loc: james bay frontierOnt.
Its all about management and balance and control.Wolves are notorious for killing anything that they can catch and will soon decimate the beaver population if left unchecked.I have witnessed a pack of wolves eating a live cow moose-healthy because the alpha male had her calf by the nose and was dragging it into the bush when I happened along.When their population gets out of balance on a trapping area every species will suffer for a number of years.Trappers in my area who fill large beaver quotas year after year are also proficient wolf trappers and take some every year also.Its all a matter of balance and man is an integral part of the equation.

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#3110990 - 04/07/12 04:31 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: akpawpincher]
garyalaska Offline
trapper

Registered: 07/17/08
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: akpawpincher
I always have a gun, but it often seems so inadequate...lol.



I laugh at wolves... laugh


[Please excuse my language... I'm an idiot] Sasquatch!
_________________________





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#3116946 - 04/11/12 06:06 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Jordan Park]
SnareLine Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/02/10
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Jordan Park
Never looked at it that way before, but I would say I'm scared that they will kill me.


I don't understand...why are you afraid they will kill you? Do you not carry a firearm? And if not, WHY not? I would be sure to be carrying around at least at least one long gun & one handgun, and a large knife, at all times, at a minimum.

Anyone ever have an incident where they had to protect themselves against an attacking pack? The way they circle you, up close, I would think that other than adrenaline making you shake wildly, it would be a pretty simple matter of shooting each one as fast as you can.

But then again, I have no idea of the reality of it, and can very possibly be talking out of my butkis...
_________________________
Hiding our humane dispatches doesn't keep the Antis from showing their own gruesome ones. In this 1 sided story, who will the public believe, then?

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#3117077 - 04/11/12 07:16 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Pittu Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/09/07
Loc: Alaska
I have spent thousands of hours in the wilds of AK both with and without a firearm. I never once gave wolves a second thought. Then again, I dont carry a ground rod with me in case I get struck by lightning either...sheesh...

Bears can be another story depending and what you are doing and where...

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#3117153 - 04/11/12 07:57 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: SnareLine]
Jordan Park Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/20/11
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted By: SnareLine
Originally Posted By: Jordan Park
Never looked at it that way before, but I would say I'm scared that they will kill me.


I don't understand...why are you afraid they will kill you? Do you not carry a firearm? And if not, WHY not? I would be sure to be carrying around at least at least one long gun & one handgun, and a large knife, at all times, at a minimum.

Anyone ever have an incident where they had to protect themselves against an attacking pack? The way they circle you, up close, I would think that other than adrenaline making you shake wildly, it would be a pretty simple matter of shooting each one as fast as you can.

But then again, I have no idea of the reality of it, and can very possibly be talking out of my butkis...



Maybe I let my imagination take over? Maybe I've seen too many movies?

Yes I do carry a firearm when I'm out in the bush. Usually a .22 sometimes I take the shotgun.
Although I know the chances of a Wolf attacking me are slim, the small chance is still there.

Imagine soldiers in Afghanistan. Chances of the taliban killing them are slim, but you never know.

One other fact, when I go out to the bush, I park my vehicle at the start of a trail and proceed to walk in. It's not uncommon for me to walk 3 or 4 miles away from my vehicle. I don't have the luxury of zooming off on a sled laughing at a pack of Wolves as they chase me lol.
And many times I wander off trails and walk through the bush, just curious to see what over that valley or what's on the other side of the thicket.
Call me a baby, call me a girl, I don't care. I still love being out there, and even though I'm scared of what could happen out there, I still go. Some guys are afraid of breaking their leg while out in the bush or coming across meth labs. I'm scared of Wolves, Cougars, and Bears.

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#3117442 - 04/11/12 10:12 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
watarrat Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/04/10
Loc: Lake Iliamna Ak
There was a pile of birds back in the cottonwoods and after a fashion we found a cow the wolves had killed with an unborn calf poking out,we pulled it out for a little clarity. From the amount of birds in the area I'd guess there is at least another kill or 2,, seasons over here but it would have been an ideal snaring situation!

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#3117887 - 04/12/12 10:05 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Jordan Park]
SnareLine Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/02/10
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Jordan Park


Maybe I let my imagination take over? Maybe I've seen too many movies?

Yes I do carry a firearm when I'm out in the bush. Usually a .22 sometimes I take the shotgun.
Although I know the chances of a Wolf attacking me are slim, the small chance is still there.

Imagine soldiers in Afghanistan. Chances of the taliban killing them are slim, but you never know.

One other fact, when I go out to the bush, I park my vehicle at the start of a trail and proceed to walk in. It's not uncommon for me to walk 3 or 4 miles away from my vehicle. I don't have the luxury of zooming off on a sled laughing at a pack of Wolves as they chase me lol.
And many times I wander off trails and walk through the bush, just curious to see what over that valley or what's on the other side of the thicket.
Call me a baby, call me a girl, I don't care. I still love being out there, and even though I'm scared of what could happen out there, I still go. Some guys are afraid of breaking their leg while out in the bush or coming across meth labs. I'm scared of Wolves, Cougars, and Bears.


Oh I don't think you're a baby or girly; those are legitimate concerns, especially if unarmed. So I was thinking you go unarmed, and if so then why...

For example, I like to always carry a .45 semi-auto in a drop leg holster for quick access at a minimum in the woods around here, and we don't even have wolves, grizzlies or mountain lions! Heck, sometimes I even step it up to a 10mm...
_________________________
Hiding our humane dispatches doesn't keep the Antis from showing their own gruesome ones. In this 1 sided story, who will the public believe, then?

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#3118126 - 04/12/12 02:20 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Jordan Park]
otterman Offline



Registered: 12/24/06
Loc: SW Alaska
Originally Posted By: Jordan Park
[

Yes I do carry a firearm when I'm out in the bush. Usually a .22 sometimes I take the shotgun.
Although I know the chances of a Wolf attacking me are slim, the small chance is still there.
I don't have the luxury of zooming off on a sled laughing at a pack of Wolves as they chase me lol.

Jordan I am sitting here laughing at you trying to decide if you are for real or just pulling everyone's leg, it just doesn't happen with wolves like you see in the movies. I have never had a wolf approach me when they see me or anyone for that matter they are high tailing it in another direction. Your 22 is adequate to take one down at close range if it ever where to come to that. You need to stop letting your wild imagination and Disney movies keep you from being afraid while you are out there kinda hard to enjoy things when your paranoid that the the predators are all out there waiting to eat you good grief!
_________________________

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#3118129 - 04/12/12 02:26 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Top Jimmy Offline
"Assistant Speling Zcar"

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Alaska, USA
Otterman, I think you need to go jogging more. You just aren't luring them in the right way.... smile

-TJ
_________________________
Some people are like slinkies - not really good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.


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#3118348 - 04/12/12 06:02 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: otterman]
SnareLine Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/02/10
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: otterman
Originally Posted By: Jordan Park
[

Yes I do carry a firearm when I'm out in the bush. Usually a .22 sometimes I take the shotgun.
Although I know the chances of a Wolf attacking me are slim, the small chance is still there.
I don't have the luxury of zooming off on a sled laughing at a pack of Wolves as they chase me lol.

Jordan I am sitting here laughing at you trying to decide if you are for real or just pulling everyone's leg, it just doesn't happen with wolves like you see in the movies. I have never had a wolf approach me when they see me or anyone for that matter they are high tailing it in another direction. Your 22 is adequate to take one down at close range if it ever where to come to that. You need to stop letting your wild imagination and Disney movies keep you from being afraid while you are out there kinda hard to enjoy things when your paranoid that the the predators are all out there waiting to eat you good grief!


I dunno; there were at least 2 joggers in Alaska killed & eaten by wolves in recent years, at at least one hiker in Canada killed by coyotes...
_________________________
Hiding our humane dispatches doesn't keep the Antis from showing their own gruesome ones. In this 1 sided story, who will the public believe, then?

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#3118415 - 04/12/12 06:52 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Kermit Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/23/10
Loc: Ontario
A pistol is a good bush gun.Only need 3 bullets.Fire 2 at the problem then swallow barrel for last shot.

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#3118624 - 04/12/12 08:41 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: SnareLine]
otterman Offline



Registered: 12/24/06
Loc: SW Alaska
Originally Posted By: SnareLine
[
I dunno; there were at least 2 joggers in Alaska killed & eaten by wolves in recent years, at at least one hiker in Canada killed by coyotes...

Actually only one and that woman had been warned the wolves were being aggressive and did not have a firearm of any kind with her. Not to mention the state made quick work of that pack
It was also the only documented wolf kill of a human in Alaska in something like a 100 yrs. There was one guy bitten by a rabid wolf a couple yrs ago sitting in his hunting camp that wolf didn't live to see the next 5 minutes because he had a gun


Edited by otterman (04/12/12 08:44 PM)
_________________________

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#3118782 - 04/12/12 10:25 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Jordan Park Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/20/11
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
In Manitoba we are not allowed to carry hand guns out in the forest, otherwise I definitely would.

Otterman, people have been known to call me over dramatic lol.

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#3119181 - 04/13/12 10:36 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: otterman]
SnareLine Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/02/10
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: otterman
Originally Posted By: SnareLine
[
I dunno; there were at least 2 joggers in Alaska killed & eaten by wolves in recent years, at at least one hiker in Canada killed by coyotes...

Actually only one and that woman had been warned the wolves were being aggressive and did not have a firearm of any kind with her. Not to mention the state made quick work of that pack
It was also the only documented wolf kill of a human in Alaska in something like a 100 yrs. There was one guy bitten by a rabid wolf a couple yrs ago sitting in his hunting camp that wolf didn't live to see the next 5 minutes because he had a gun


Oh, my bad; the male was killed in saskat in 2005

Kenton Joel Carnegie
Born 11 February 1983(1983-02-11)
Ajax, Ontario, Canada
Died 8 November 2005(2005-11-08) (aged 22)
Points North Landing, Saskatchewan, Canada
Cause of death Killed by grey wolves
_________________________
Hiding our humane dispatches doesn't keep the Antis from showing their own gruesome ones. In this 1 sided story, who will the public believe, then?

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#3119201 - 04/13/12 10:50 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
SnareLine Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/02/10
Loc: NY
Jordan, not to scare you even more, but have you ever looked up the list of people killed by wolves in documented history?

Literally THOUSANDS. You have every right be be scared...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_attacks_on_humans#List_of_fatal_wolf_attacks


Wolf attacks on humans From Wikipedia

List of fatal wolf attacks

This is a list of known fatal wolf attacks worldwide by century in reverse chronological order. Attacks which occurred in the 21st century are listed by decade.


2010s
Name, age, gender Date Location, comments
Candice Berner, 32, female March 8, 2010 (discovered) Berner, a teacher and avid jogger, was found dead along a road near Chignik Lake, Alaska, a village about 475 miles southwest of Anchorage, Alaska. Snowmobilers found her mutilated body with wolf tracks in the adjacent snow. The Alaska State Medical Examiner ruled that her death was caused by "multiple injuries due to animal mauling."[29][30][31]

2000s
Name, age, gender Date Location, comments
Security guard, Vladimir Paschkov, 40 6:00 am, February 18, 2009 Siklyatz village of Duvanskiy district, Urals. Paschkov was surprised by the wolf on a haystack in a dairy farm and attacked. Three women and another man rushed in with pitchforks and a shovel, and all were injured by the wolf. Paschkov bled to death, while the others were treated for injuries in hospital.[32]
Woman February 10, 2009 Village of Giorgitsminda, about 40 kilometres from Tbilisi, Georgia.[33]
10-year old boy January 10, 2009 Village of Zavod-Kyn in the administrative district of Lysjvensk in Perm region, Russia.[34]
8-year old boy April 6, 2006 Nakhodka, Eastern Russia. Two eight-year-old boys had approached the wolf enclosure in the Nakhodka Zoo, with one boy stretching out his hand to stroke the animals. One wolf bit the boy, and another seized hold of his leg. Although the child escaped, he died early the next morning.[35]
Kenton Joel Carnegie, 22, male November 8, 2005 Prince Albert, Saskatchewan. Carnegie had gone for a walk and didn't return to the surveyors' camp where he was working. His body was found partially consumed in an area known to be frequented by four wolves which regularly fed on human refuse. The pathologist who performed the autopsy, testified Carnegie had lost about 25% to 30% of his body mass in the attack, with the top midsection to the thigh having been partially consumed.[36] Although originally the possibility that the culprit was an American Black Bear was not ruled out, a coroners' jury concluded after a two year inquiry that the attackers had indeed been wolves.[37][38]
Two people 2005 Khost province, Afghanistan. Occurred during what was considered the worst Afghan Winter in over a decade.[39]
Four people 2005 Naka, Paktia province, Afghanistan. Two victims were killed during trips to other villages.[39]
Two people Early February, 2005 Muinak district, western Uzbekistan.[40]
Homeless man January 2, 2005 Village of Vali-Asr, near the town of Torbat Heydariya, northeastern Iran. Wolves entering the village seeking refuge from harsh weather attacked an elderly homeless man in front of witnesses. Those witnessing the incident attempted to fight off the wolves, while waiting for police assistance. Police intervention never came, and the victim died.[41]
Three people Winter, 2003 Astrakhan Oblast, Russia.[42]
Three shepherds Winter, 2003 Sredneakhtubinsk district, Russia.[42]

1900s
Name, age, gender Date Location, comments
Anand Kumar, 4, male 1996 Banbirpur, India. The wolf attacked Kumar whilst he, his two siblings and his mother were using the open ground for their toilet. When a police search party found the boy three days later, half a mile away, all that remained of the body was the head.[43]
60 mostly prepubescent children 1996–1997 Uttar Pradesh, India.[12]
Patricia Wyman, 24, female April 18, 1996 Haliburton, Ontario. Ms. Wyman had been hired as a new caretaker of the wolves at the Haliburton forest and wildlife preserve. The 5 wolves involved in the attack had been raised in captivity all their lives, but had never been socialized with humans.[44]
Michael Amosov, 60, male February 21, 1996 Hamlet of Bolonitza, Zadrach, Belarus. Amosov disappeared whilst walking to Bolonitza from Zadrach through a forest. A search party followed his tracks and found an area of churned, bloodied snow surrounded by multiple wolf tracks.[45]
Woodcutter, 55, male December, 1995 Hvoschono, Belarus. Disappeared whilst working in a nearby forest. Two days later, a search party found his remains surrounded by wolf tracks.[45]
9-year old schoolgirl December, 1995 Usviatyda, Belarus. Disappeared whilst walking home from school. Her father searched for her and found her head surrounded by bloodied snow covered in wolf tracks.[45]
Unidentified female October, 1995 Village south of Voronezh, Russia. The woman was working on a cornfield, when a rabid female wolf attacked and bit her throat.[5]
Unidentified person 1995 Russian part of Karelia.[5]
60 children April 1993-April 1995 Bihar State, India. All the children were taken from settlements primarily during March to August between 17.00 and 19.00 hrs. There were more female victims (58%) than males and 89% were 3-11-yrs old. Of the 80 child casualties, only 20 were rescued.[46]
Alyshia Berzyck, 3, female June 3, 1989 Minnesota. Killed by a pet wolf on a chain.[47]
17 prepubescent children 1986 Ashta, India. Known as the Wolves of Ashta.[48]
Unidentified woman June 29, 1982 Near Dubrovna, Belarus. Bitten to death on the face, arms and legs by a rabid wolf.[5]
13 children, aged 4–10 years February-August 1981 Hazaribagh in the eastern Indian district of Bihar. Known as the Wolves of Hazaribagh.
Child, 2, male 1981 Ft. Wayne, Michigan. Lone wolf kept as a pet.[47]
Elderly woman Late August, 1979 Death occurred in Sinezerka.[5]
Unknown child 1978 Wheatland, Wyoming. Lone wolf kept as a pet.[47]
B. Mashakova March 30, 1972 Chelkarskij region, Kazakhstan. Rabid wolf.[5]
4 children 1957-74 Spain.[49]
Vitali Ushtinov, 5 years old July 11, 1952 1 km from Village of Karmanov. Vitali was attacked whilst picking berries and dragged into the forest.[5]
10-year old girl April 29, 1951 Near the village of Tarasovok, Orichevskij region. The girl was killed by a wolf whilst bathing in a creek with a friend.[5]
1 boy and 3 girls aged 3–6 years July-August, 1950 Lebyazhskij region.[5]
Svetlana Tueva November 17, 1948 Unspecified Soviet province. Svetlana was attacked by five wolves when she and her friends were walking home from school. The wolves dragged her a kilometre into the forest. All that was found was an overcoat.[5]
9 children aged 7–12 years July-August 1948 Darovskij region.[5]
Veniamina Fokina, 13 years old 1947 Village of Rusanov, Khalturinskij region.[5]
Anna Mikheeva, 16 years old 1947 Village of Chernyabevij, Khalturinskij region. Wolves attacked Anna and her mother, killing the former and dragging her into a forest. She was found partially eaten and with a broken neck.[5]
Pimma Molchanova, 5 years old May 8, 1945 Village of Shilyavo, Kirovskaya Oblast, Russia. Pimma was washing goloshas in a stream with a 7-year old friend, when a wolf caught her and her friend's screaming alerted the villagers. Her body was found 500 metres away. The wolf had bitten through her throat and eaten her thigh muscles.[5]
Maria Berdnikova, 17 years old 29 April 1945 Village of Golodaevshchina, Kirovskaya Oblast. Maria and her sister were working 50 metres from a cattle yard near a mansion. The wolf grabbed her by the throat and carried her off, followed by peasants. The wolf scaled a 1-metre fence and dropped its victim 200 metres into the forest.[5]
36 children 1944-63 Kirov region, Russia.[49]
Maria Polyakova, 16 years old November 19, 1944 B. Ramenskij, Kirovskaya Oblast. Two wolves killed her whilst on the way to work.[5]
Musinova Tamara, 14 years old November 12, 1944 Kirovskaya Oblast. Nine wolves involved.[5]
Perfilova, 8 years old November 6, 1944 Kirovskaya Oblast. Killed and eaten by a wolf pack on the road to a collective farm.[5]
Valya Starikova, 13 years old September 21, 1944 Village of Goldaevshchina, Kirovskaya Oblast. The wolf carried her into a forest. Only pieces of her shoes were found.[5]
5 children 1937 Poland.[49]
95 people 1926 Districts of Bareilly and Pilibhit, United Provinces, India.[25]
10 people 1924 Kirov. Perpetrators were two rabid wolves.[5]
Trapper and two Natives 1922 Ontario. When a trapper did not return to the post office as promised, two natives were sent to find him. All three were killed by wolves.[28]
Ben Cochrum 1922 Manitoba. North of Fisher river on Lake Winnipeg. The victim's bones were found among the remains of 11 wolves. Seven had been shot and four had been clubbed to death. Only after his rifle stock was smashed did the trapper apparently cease to fight and succumb to the wolf pack.[50]
James Smith March 4, 1910 near Springfield, MO [51]. Wolves attacked him whilst he was alone in the woods, waiting for the return of his brother. When the latter returned he found his brother's bones. In the centre of a circle of five dead wolves, was an empty repeating rifle, showing that he had been overpowered before he could reload his weapon.[50]

1800s
Name, age, gender Date Location, Comments
203 people 1889 European sector of Russian Empire.[52]
Father and son, family name Olson March 7, 1888 New Rockford, North Dakota. The two men started towards a haystack a few yards from the house to shovel a path around the stack when they were surrounded by a pack and devoured alive.[47]
1445 people 1870–1887 European sector of Russian Empire.[5]
22 children 1880–1881 Turku, Southwest Finland. Three wolves involved. In January, 1882, a female wolf was shot and 12 days later a male wolf poisoned, which brought the attacks to an end.[2][52] Finnish conservation groups, such as the Finnish Association for Nature Conservation, claimed the animals were wolf-dog hybrids. An examination of the taxidermied specimens showed that they were pure wolves.[53]
Boy 1882 Sortavala, Karelia.[2]
8-year old boy 1880 Uusikirkko, Karelia.[2]
624 people 1878 British India.[48]
9 children 1877 Tampere, Southwest Finland. More than one wolf involved.[2]
721 people 1875 North-Western Province and Bihar State, British India.[54]
161 people 1871 Imperial Russia. The document stating this however, was produced in 1890.[8]
12-year old girl 1859 Eurajoki, Southwest Finland.[2]
14 people 1851 Lorges Forest, France. A rabid wolf ran amok for 45 kilometres (28 mi) in seven hours, through nine villages, biting 41 people of whom 14 subsequently died of rabies. The wolf also bit nearly 100 animals and many presumably died from rabies too.[citation needed]
266 adults, 110 children 1849–1851 European sector of Russian Empire.[5]
20 children, one adult 1839–1850 Karelia. Unknown number of wolves.[2]
3 children 1836 Kemiö, Southwest Finland. More than one wolf involved.[2]
13 people July 1833 Green River, western Wyoming, perpetrated by a rabid white wolf.[15]
8 children, 1 woman January 1831, Summer 1832 Karelia. Thought to have been a single animal.[2]
Unknown African American, male 1830 Kentucky, near the Ohio border. While traveling through a heavily forested area, two African Americans were attacked by a pack of wolves. Using their axes, they attempted to fight off the wolves. Both men were knocked to the ground and severely wounded. One man was killed. The other dropped his axe and escaped up a tree. There he spent the night. The next morning the man climbed down from the tree. The bones of his friend lay scattered on the snow. Three wolves lay dead.[47]
Innuit woman 1829 Strangled by a wolf as her husband rushed to her assistance.[28]
Aleksei Moiseev, 8 years old 1823 Village of Alakurskij. Aleksei went outside his village with some friends and was attacked by a lone wolf. Peasants intervened too late.[5]
Petr Pitka, 3 years old May, 1823 Village of Bolshie, Tuganitsy. The boy left his hut with his sister at dinner time. His four year old sister returned home, saying that her brother had been carried off by a wolf. His remains were discovered on June 2, in a haymaking field outside the village.[5]
Lone French Traveler 1811 Bitten by a wolf on the road to Toulon, arrived at a waystation and shortly thereafter expired from a severe wound to the leg. His body disappeared later that evening before the coroners could arrive and examine it. It was almost a month before another, non fatal attack occurred on the open stretch of road, but further attacks occurred along the stretch of road for a number of years thereafter following an almost monthly pattern.[citation needed] [28]
11 children between 3.5–15 years of age and one 19 year old woman 30 December 1820, 27 March 1821 Border between Dalarna and Gästrikland. The wolf had been captured as a pup and raised in captivity for 3–4 years, before released prior to the attacks.[2] Known as the Wolf of Gysinge.[55]
111 people 1804–1853 Non rabid wolves killed 111 people in Estonia, of which 108 were children, 2 were men and 1 woman.[5]
6-8 year old girl 28 December 1800 Akershus county, Southern Norway.[2][49]

1700s
Name, age, gender Date Location, Comments
Sick Native Americans 1770 Wolves entered Indian camps to eat corpses of smallpox victims. They also attacked and killed the sick.[28]
Ninety-nine people 1763–1767 Gévaudan, Auvergne, Languedoc; France. Beast of Gévaudan and whelps.[56]
Four people January, 1765 Soissons northeast of Paris. Known as the Wolf of Soissons.[56]
Nils Nisson, 8, male January, 1763 Hova Parish, Vastergotland County, Sweden. Lone wolf.[2][57]
Farmer named Shōzaemon February 1762 Japan. Killed a rabid wolf in self defence, but died 2 months later from the disease.[24]
8 people 1750 Yuatsumi village, Japan. Perpetrators were 3 rabid wolves.[24]
Borta Johansdotter, 12, female 3 August 1731 Steneby parish, Dalsland County, Sweden.[2][58]
Jon Ersson, 9, male 6 January 1728 Boda Parish, Varmland County, Sweden. Probably killed by same wolf as below.[2][59]
Jon Svensson, 4.5, male 17 December 1727 Boda Parish, Varmland County, Sweden. Mauled and partially eaten by lone wolf.[2][59]
Annunciata Maria Almasio, 7, female September 9, 1705 Rebaů, Gorla Maggiore, Northern Italy.[60]
Maria Campascina, 65, female August 28, 1705 Viggiů, Northern Italy.[60]
Anna Maria, 9, female March, 1705 Viggiů, Northern Italy.[60]
Six-year old child September 17, 1704 Gorla Maggiore, Northern Italy.[60]
16 people 1704 Varesotto, Northern Italy.[60]

Pre-1700s
Name, age, gender Date Location, Comments
40 people Winter, 1450 Paris, France. Known as the Wolves of Paris.[56]
3 women 957 Gakkan', Hokucho, Japan.[24]
1 person 886 Kamo Shrine, Japan.[24]
13-year old child 851 Japan. The attack occurred within the house of a Shinto priest.[24]
Mempricius 980 BC Great Britain. Killed by a wolf pack whilst on a hunting expedition[61]

_________________________
Hiding our humane dispatches doesn't keep the Antis from showing their own gruesome ones. In this 1 sided story, who will the public believe, then?

Top
#3119318 - 04/13/12 12:48 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Jordan Park]
Pittu Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/09/07
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Jordan Park
In Manitoba we are not allowed to carry hand guns out in the forest, otherwise I definitely would.



That sounds a heck of a lot scarier than wolves to me!!!!

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#3119657 - 04/13/12 06:11 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Kusko Offline
"Mr. Mayor"

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Bethel, AK
Human documented in North America.........SnareLine.
_________________________
"There are three things I have learned never to discuss with people: religion, politics and the Great Pumpkin." Linus Van Pelt

www.alaskafinandfur.com

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#3119668 - 04/13/12 06:19 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Jordan Park]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Loc: McGrath, AK
Originally Posted By: Jordan Park
In Manitoba we are not allowed to carry hand guns out in the forest, otherwise I definitely would.

Otterman, people have been known to call me over dramatic lol.



I'd be definitely moving as quickly as I can pack my gear.
_________________________
Mean As Nails

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#3119671 - 04/13/12 06:23 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Kusko]
SnareLine Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/02/10
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Kusko
Human documented in North America.........SnareLine.



Not as many as in Europe or Asia, but the article states that it's probably because:

1. North Americans have always had access to weapons and were better able to defend ourselves, and

2. North Americans have customarily always hunted, unlike how only nobility were permitted to hunt in Europe / Asia (also religious reasons), and so the wolves here have probably become more afraid / wary of humans. Still have attacked lots of humans here, though.
_________________________
Hiding our humane dispatches doesn't keep the Antis from showing their own gruesome ones. In this 1 sided story, who will the public believe, then?

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#3119712 - 04/13/12 07:05 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Loc: McGrath, AK
Different species of wolf in europe also. And used to eating people due to the plague. Lots of large bait piles available
_________________________
Mean As Nails

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#3119750 - 04/13/12 07:38 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: white17]
SnareLine Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/02/10
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: white17
Different species of wolf in europe also. And used to eating people due to the plague. Lots of large bait piles available


All good points...
_________________________
Hiding our humane dispatches doesn't keep the Antis from showing their own gruesome ones. In this 1 sided story, who will the public believe, then?

Top
#3119878 - 04/13/12 09:14 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Jordan Park Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/20/11
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
So I guess I'll just stay "Alert" while out for walks thanks to Snareline lol

This Winter I'll try my best to dent the Wolf population here.

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#3120870 - 04/14/12 07:00 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Boco Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/08/11
Loc: james bay frontierOnt.
Yea when you start looking at them as your prey and yourself as the predator things take on a different perspective and I don't think you'll be scared of them anymore once you show them who's the boss.

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#3122350 - 04/15/12 05:51 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
decoy Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/24/07
Loc: north Idaho
Tell that to my son Kenny, you will get a different perspective I gar-en-tee. As I have said before " No Father wants to get a phone call on a Sunday afternoon at 3 o'clock like I did from Kenny about a pack of 5 wolves.
_________________________
Hunt with your Kids, not for them.
>>>----->


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#3122809 - 04/15/12 10:19 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: decoy]
Jordan Park Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/20/11
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted By: decoy
Tell that to my son Kenny, you will get a different perspective I gar-en-tee. As I have said before " No Father wants to get a phone call on a Sunday afternoon at 3 o'clock like I did from Kenny about a pack of 5 wolves.


May I hear the story?

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#3123366 - 04/16/12 01:23 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Jordan Park]
SnareLine Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/02/10
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Jordan Park
Originally Posted By: decoy
Tell that to my son Kenny, you will get a different perspective I gar-en-tee. As I have said before " No Father wants to get a phone call on a Sunday afternoon at 3 o'clock like I did from Kenny about a pack of 5 wolves.


May I hear the story?


Yes, please do tell this story...very interested to hear it...
_________________________
Hiding our humane dispatches doesn't keep the Antis from showing their own gruesome ones. In this 1 sided story, who will the public believe, then?

Top
#3127262 - 04/19/12 01:20 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
decoy Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/24/07
Loc: north Idaho
I'm sure I have posted this before but will gladly do it again:

Kenny asked me to go cat hunting and I turned him down because of where he was going was a tough spot for this ole man but as it turned out I now wish I had been there for the simple reason my son was in a bad spot and I should have been there to protect him, just the way fathers are or should be. Not that he can't handle his self in the woods but.....

Anyway during the hunt he had gained quite a bit elevation in very deep snow following the hounds when all blazes broke loose and he found one hound dead and then found another one dead. Another hound went down the mt. seriously injured. He took the collars off the 2 dead hounds and I believe they had bells on them. In the mean time Kenny had been in contact with his friend who owned the hounds and was on the road at the base of the mt.and he started up the mt. toward Kenny. And now the pack of 5 wolves started circleling Kenny. Sticks and snowballs did not drive them away. Pistol fire finally conviced them to leave but not before Kenny thought he was going to end up look'n like those bloodied dead hounds. He took quick pixs of the dead hounds before the wolves got around him but right now I can't locate them on the putor. I don't know if the collars Ken had attracted the wolves or what but it was a dicee situation that changed the way Kenny hunted for 3-4 years afterwards I can vouch for that and it hurt everytime something triggered his saying "Dad, lets get out of here...NOW" Mainly when we would cow elk call or something similar and wolves would immediately start howling or we would run into fresh wolf turds and or tracks or fresh moose,elk kill. Around the fresh kills would be black, smelly loose stools not turds which made you watch your backside. His face showed fear when this things happened and hurt me deeply. And his mom, my wife of 50 years this month bought her first hunting licence at 68 years of age only because to her the only good wolf was a dead one after how bad they scared Kenny.
Been a couple years back but that's my best remeberance but I will never forget that phone call and not recognizing my son's voice and after knowing who it was all I could think he was trying to tell me was someone had got killed that day and how relived I was when I finally pieced everything together.

All the pinheads upset with Pinchers photo should see the blood around the dead hounds.......

Anyways we always had onesy/twosy wolves around but never the packs and we always had plenty of elk, deer, moose but not any more, what a shame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
_________________________
Hunt with your Kids, not for them.
>>>----->


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#3127581 - 04/19/12 10:42 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
piperniner Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Alaska
Thanks for sharing the story D. Also interesting to hear of the game situation - agree with your assessment.

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#3127780 - 04/19/12 01:53 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Jordan Park Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/20/11
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Thanks for the story Decoy.

Glad your Son made it out of there.

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#3127873 - 04/19/12 03:29 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Boco Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/08/11
Loc: james bay frontierOnt.
Many times when on my trapline I have doubled back on my trail and have seen where wolves have followed me from a distance stalking so to speak.You will never know they are there.The first couple times I observed this,I got a creepy feeling but now it dosnt bother me at all,thats just the way wolves are.They are very curious animals and want to know what you are up to.They get used to you being there after a while.

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#3127923 - 04/19/12 04:00 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
elktrack Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/19/12
Loc: North Idaho Panhandle
Decoy, Unfortunately stories like Kenny's are popping up all over our neck of the woods. There are several hound hunters with similar stories. I personally haven't had an encounter like that. I think there was a story in Feild and Stream or Outdoor Life recently about the gal down by Headquarters that shot a big wolf at like 15 feet that was coming at her. Percentage wise there probably isn't much worry about getting eaten but I am not takin any chances. by going unarmed. Shouldn't be unarmed anyway, wolves or not. Hopefully he can get over the trauma by putting some smokin holes in a bunch of wolves.

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#3127928 - 04/19/12 04:02 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Decoy, sounds like the story could have ended badly if your son had not had a hand gun.
And that's the thing about it, you can get by sometimes for a long time or even a very long
time out in the woods and have no need of a weapon. But eventually, if you are out there
a lot you will see the day when you will either be glad you have a gun, or.. wish like
heck you had one. It only takes one encounter and you can end up maimed for life or
dead, depending on how it plays out. Personally I have more respect for someone that
never goes out without a weapon, than I do of the person that never carries one.

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#3127961 - 04/19/12 04:11 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
elktrack Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/19/12
Loc: North Idaho Panhandle
Quote:
Decoy, sounds like the story could have ended badly if your son had not had a hand gun.
And that's the thing about it, you can get by sometimes for a long time or even a very long
time out in the woods and have no need of a weapon. But eventually, if you are out there
a lot you will see the day when you will either be glad you have a gun, or.. wish like
heck you had one. It only takes one encounter and you can end up maimed for life or
dead, depending on how it plays out. Personally I have more respect for someone that
never goes out without a weapon, than I do of the person that never carries one.


AMEN!

Same reason you carry a fire extinguisher and jumper cables. When you need it, you NEED it. I have some law enforcement buddies and they will be the first to tell you that they don't carry weapons to protect us, they carry them for SELF protection.

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#3128036 - 04/19/12 05:13 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Gen2600 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/10
Loc: Alaska
That's a story that needs heard Decoy, I personally appreciate your telling of it.

For me, being armed in the woods is like this:

I'd rather not need it and have it then need it and not have it...
_________________________
Username is Gen2600 but you can call me Travis!

Ben Cochrum: "I should have packed an axe"

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#3129059 - 04/20/12 01:40 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Nunamiut Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/26/10
Loc: alaska
That sounds like a life changing hunt. Once the wolves eat up the all the game, every animal becomes game. Do the F&G do animal counts annually? Sounds like there needs to be a bounty on the critters to control them.
_________________________
22-250 is all you need...........for everything

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#3129393 - 04/20/12 07:01 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
SnareLine Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/02/10
Loc: NY
Wow! Thank you for sharing, sorry to hear about it, and glad he came out ok...
_________________________
Hiding our humane dispatches doesn't keep the Antis from showing their own gruesome ones. In this 1 sided story, who will the public believe, then?

Top
#3135537 - 04/25/12 03:11 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: SnareLine]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
This is an interesting video, happened a couple years ago in Anchorage.

[video:youtube]http://youtu.be/mGXWy3htXgQ[/video]

Edit: (Maybe someone more ept than I can make a clickable link. I can't seem to figure it out)


Edited by Spek Jones (04/25/12 03:35 PM)
Edit Reason: Just dumb I guess

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#3135634 - 04/25/12 04:55 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Gen2600 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/10
Loc: Alaska
Well that's odd, we used the media tag button and put in the url, not sure what else we're sposed to do there...

Youtube Video



Edited by Gen2600 (04/25/12 05:44 PM)
_________________________
Username is Gen2600 but you can call me Travis!

Ben Cochrum: "I should have packed an axe"

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#3135666 - 04/25/12 05:34 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
That works, thanks Travis.

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#3135714 - 04/25/12 06:18 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Loc: Alaska
Those women in the video were pretty rattled, can't say as you can blame them. There are a lot fewer moose around here than there used to be I'm guessing because of the toll that pack was taking so what Sinnott says at the end only makes sense in that they would need to eat more dogs since there are fewer moose to be had. A couple years ago while duck hunting in October I found a little bull they had killed.

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#3136513 - 04/26/12 11:08 AM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Yeah they were rattled, and it's obviously not faked. Pretty traumatic experience for
them. If any one of them had had even a 22 pistol with them there would have been no
problem. A forehead shot at short range would drop one in it's tracks, but even if you
quickly hit a couple of them anyplace on them the whole pack would hightail it out of there. IMO the can of pepper spray gave those women a false sense of security when they
took off on their walk. Maybe being that they were close to a populated area also
contributed to that false security.
But, statisticly speaking they were much more likely to have a confrontation with
a moose on that walk than with a pack of wolves. A 22 would be pretty light weight
defense against a mad moose so IMO at least one of them should have been packing at
least a 357 Mag and been practiced up enough with it so they could hit a moose in the
head at close range. (also Anchorage has it's share of two legged predators as well).

Closing down trails and advising people to stay indoors like Sinnott was found of
doing is just a way of sweeping the problem under the rug and avoiding the issue.
That bandaid will work on that particular trail but the problem will just pop up again on some other trail. To F&G's credit I believe they did send in trappers later to remove
that pack of wolves.

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#3136614 - 04/26/12 12:25 PM Re: Wolf kills, slaughter in the snow. [Re: Spek Jones]
Kermit Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/23/10
Loc: Ontario
Theres stories of elk hunters and bears.Seems the bears know that a rifle shot means a gutpile.Seems out there but not really if you think about it.More and more city people are in the back country.Their basic instincts for survival have been bred out of them.They have a misguided outlook on nature courtesy of the school system.Their survival skills consist of knowing were the next Tim Hortens is.How many city women know that being in the bush with a period is a risky adventure.Next thing you know we will need a licence to get away from civilization.

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