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#3089024 - 03/24/12 07:58 AM Re: Skidoo expedition 600 ACE [Re: fishermann222]
bearcat2 Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/31/11
Posts: 12
Loc: Idaho
Personally I don't want the SWT for the weight factor, but for all of those that are saying the 600 ACE doesn't have enough power for the SWT. What about those of us that have been running the old 300F Tundras, would we think they are underpowered? Just thinking that those of us that are used to running machines that are gutless might not think they are that underpowered.

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#3089109 - 03/24/12 09:14 AM Re: Skidoo expedition 600 ACE [Re: fishermann222]
Aknative Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 17
Loc: Fairbanks AK
Thanks for sharing all that WB!
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Rumors of my assimilation have been greatly exaggerated.

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#3089128 - 03/24/12 09:35 AM Re: Skidoo expedition 600 ACE [Re: fishermann222]
fishermann222 Offline

"OX"

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 5292
Loc: Bethel, Alaska
WB the one reason I say maybe not enough power, is there has been a few times this year I felt it was a little underpowered with the 16" track in my expo. It is always going up hills in fresh powder, pulling a HEAVY load.

Yes it has roughly the same HP as the 550 fan, but as you know from riding it, it is not as "snappy" on the throttle as the 2 stroke is. You have to plan ahead in certain situations on when your going to thumb that throttle hard.
_________________________
I survived the Tman crash of '06

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#3089273 - 03/24/12 12:10 PM Re: Skidoo expedition 600 ACE [Re: fishermann222]
Family Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2087
Loc: Homer, Alaska
That post alone is worth a trip to the ARCHIVE at some point when this thread gets buried.
Thanks so much Dave. It twas with that conversation at the fling that has me continuing to think SWT. It was this kind of experiential posting that won you TOTY. Thanks so much. The photos are a real bonus.
Love that SWT photo with the barren landscape and clouds. Nice

Your comment on making extra cash just by riding a four stroke is very interesting. Kind of goes along with my thinking of the right machine combination would certainly mean a larger fur check. And over time more profit.

I have been preoccupied (happens a fair bit) with some very different plans for my marten line next year. It was kind of my initial idea 7 years ago but with the bravo it never materialized.
And that was to travel certain parts of my line with a light camp in tow. I have plenty of opportunities to drop a sled and traverse terrain in a spoked fashion. But with ideas more of camping light where I end away from my base camp. The swt would make that much more of a reality. A good topic for another thread for sure.
I don't know if I would go with the swt new with the ACE.
I really appreciate your input on the Tundra/Expedition comparison. Your input lines up very much with my thinking. No way I want to deal with the excitement a Tundra is going to provide a distracted trapper on the trail. I am so glad I had the opportunity to ride one of those narrow critters once. It has really helped formulate my opinion. I know guys say you get used to it. But I don't want to get used to a unwanted characteristic Especially when stability is something that I have learned to enjoy. . ;0)

But looking at the used SWT with the 800 vs a new Expedition ACE.
Big questions would be right now. Maneuverability in tight quarters. For me having to deal and plan my travels in tight quarters without reverse for the last 7 years has made for some interesting situations. None of which are easy on the back even with a bravo. That feature alone would be a huge leap. The reality is I spend little time in the trees now.

This video was interesting to watch. And really the one that makes me doubt my decision on getting the 800 the most. Watching the manuverabilty of the swt 800 next to the Wide track was revealing. Wonder where the Ace Expedition would have faired in this situation.

Skandic WT 600 e-tec 2011 VS SWT V-800 2010




Mostly running tundra in close vicinity of a marten cover.
The one thing that Mike Johnson said he didn't like about the swt 800 was how it rode in low snow tussock conditions. He said it would really throw him side to side at times. The shear weight of the machine had a mind of its own. Creating a pretty forceful body rock-n-roll at times. He is a small guy and he said it took him by surprise when he first started to ride it.
Well my bravos are officially on the market so something will happen by next Trapping season. If not a lot sooner.
What is the snow check option do. How much down. When is delivery? Early enough to barge? Probably not.
_________________________
Passion- There are some people who live in a dream world, and their are some who face reality; and then there are those who turn one into the other.

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#3089281 - 03/24/12 12:25 PM Re: Skidoo expedition 600 ACE [Re: fishermann222]
piperniner Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 1275
Loc: Alaska
WB :

Great info - thanks for taking the time. Like everything else, a guy needs to determine his needs , conditions, budget and other criteria before deciding what to purchase.

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#3089493 - 03/24/12 04:30 PM Re: Skidoo expedition 600 ACE [Re: piperniner]
Wolverinebait Offline
trapper

Registered: 03/29/11
Posts: 0
Loc: Tonsina, Alaska


Originally Posted By: fishermann222
WB the one reason I say maybe not enough power, is there has been a few times this year I felt it was a little underpowered with the 16" track in my expo. It is always going up hills in fresh powder, pulling a HEAVY load.

Yes it has roughly the same HP as the 550 fan, but as you know from riding it, it is not as "snappy" on the throttle as the 2 stroke is. You have to plan ahead in certain situations on when your going to thumb that throttle hard.



Yep, you're right. The "snappy" throttle response is most apparently lacking when clamping the throttle at 30mph or so. That's where a 550 would pull a little harder than the ACE. At low speeds is where the ACE's torque is really seen. About the only time I have seen where it would have been nice to have a little more power/speed in my conditions is while running along a river and suddenly felt that I'm in deep overflow and want to pour the coal to it as I head toward the shoreline. I've never gotten my Tundra stuck yet because of that, but I can see where it's possible to have that happen. And I can surely see in your situation with pulling heavy loads in fresh snow that power/speed/momentum are needed to help make sure you make it going up hills. I almost never pull cargo sleds,... I hate it, because I have enough trouble going thru my snow conditions as it is without dragging something that weighs hundreds of pounds at the same time, not to mention the added hassle of broken hitches, tipped over sleds, getting stuck a lot more, etc,... but I know that some guys have to. (That makes the photos of JR even more amazing to me, 'cause he's pulling two at the same time, and a groomer to boot!).

I'm pretty sure at this point tho, that I'm going to switch my Tundra over to what you have. Have you carefully measured your gas mileage? I've heard more guys with the Ex Sport/600 ACE claiming over 20mpg than Tundra guys, and the only difference is gearing that I can tell, but in the past, my experience with gearing provides performance changes, but did very little to fuel economy. But, I've never ridden the EX Sport, so maybe yours gets a little better gas mileage, while the Tundra gearing gives a little more power to the track, I don't know. All I know for sure, is that I have never tipped a sled over as much in my life as I have with this Tundra. When it's upright,.. it's great. Maybe I should put a bumper sticker on my belly pan that reads,... "If you can read this, please roll me over",...








Originally Posted By: piperniner
WB :

Great info - thanks for taking the time. Like everything else, a guy needs to determine his needs , conditions, budget and other criteria before deciding what to purchase.


Yep, that's the bottom line right there, for sure,...




A few more thoughts/comments about the SWT I forgot to mention,... (don't want to hi-jack this thread too much tho). The SWT is the ultimate utility machine. It seems to have a single-minded purpose, and that is to provide for the most flotation possible. They are very stable, as far as not tipping them over goes, but as for steering, ride comfort, overall ease of handling, they are going to rate down towards the bottom of the list I would suppose, because if those other things are characteristics that are most important to you, then this is probably not the sled you want. These are huge-looking machines,.. when you tip them over on their sides and look at that track, it almost makes you laugh at how gi-normous it is! If I could only have one machine to trap with under normal/regular trapping conditions in Alaska,.. I would probably not pick this one. But I can also see why guys like Mike Johnson does use one,... because you're not going to get it stuck (unless of course you drive it off a creek bank, or into some hole somewhere, etc),... and getting stuck becomes a major factor in life when you're in your 70's. (And not a really "big" guy to start with,... grin). I think at least 90% of guys with a SWT could do & go the same places with a WT.

Another potential major thing to keep in mind concerning the SWT, is that as far as I know or could find, there is no after-market source for this 24" wide track,... so if you rip or damage it in any way, you are screwed to the wall at your local Ski-doo dealer,... and this track sells for over $2,000. Even back in 1998 when I bought my first WT Skandic, this fact alone made me choose the WT over the SWT. When I fianlly decided that I wanted to try a SWT, the first used one I looked at had a rip along one edge maybe an inch long, so I told the guy he'd have to drop the price by $2500,.. of course he wasn't willing to do that right then & there. So, it can happen,.. and I'm more conscious of driving over rocks & stumps poking up with this thing than I have ever been before,.. because I really do not want to jam a stick into a sprocket hole & rip this track. I have also put ice screws into it, to reduce the chances of ever spinning the track & cutting it somehow on something.

And with all that being said,... I don't think I will ever be without a SWT again,... for as long as I trap,... which will be til the day I become wolverine bait,... grin




_________________________
If a man is out in the woods,... and says something,...

And no woman heard him,...

Was he still wrong,... ?

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#3089664 - 03/24/12 07:15 PM Re: Skidoo expedition 600 ACE [Re: fishermann222]
Family Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2087
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Thanks Dave.
Quote:
SWT-They are very stable, as far as not tipping them over goes, but as for steering, ride comfort, overall ease of handling, they are going to rate down towards the bottom of the list


Ah jee wiz. Why did you have to go and say that. cry
That is kind of what is evident in the video above. Like riding a Percheron rather than a big cutting horse. ;0)
Not that I have ridden either but seems a good comparison.

So Dave did you have that whole load of animals on your machine at once with no sled?

I love discussion like this.
Had lots of time to think about it today. Just few out to and over St. Marys. Too bad to land so had to come back to Anchorage. arghh. No camp tonight. Anyone want to have Dinner in Anchorage?
_________________________
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#3089666 - 03/24/12 07:20 PM Re: Skidoo expedition 600 ACE [Re: fishermann222]
Alaskan Offline
"AMY SUE"

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 4967
Loc: Gnome, Alaska
Big issue with the fuel mileage (or i've been told) is the track length. My 136" Renegade sport got 23mpg. Wasn't great conditions (wind cut trail, and hauling a sled), but wasn't fresh snow breaking a trail. But, I've been told those longer tracks just aren't getting the good gas mileage.
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"Goats pee in the water sheep drink."

Life member: NRA, NTA, AkTA, AkFTA, WiTA, MnTA, MoTA, OrTA

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#3089701 - 03/24/12 07:44 PM Re: Skidoo expedition 600 ACE [Re: fishermann222]
Family Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2087
Loc: Homer, Alaska
That is understandable. Got to add some load for sure. Wish they would rate milage with each model. Instead of hyping the 29 mpg they got on a short track under ideal conditions. But 23 would be pretty cool.
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Passion- There are some people who live in a dream world, and their are some who face reality; and then there are those who turn one into the other.

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#3089767 - 03/24/12 08:16 PM Re: Skidoo expedition 600 ACE [Re: fishermann222]
Dirt Online   content
trapper

Registered: 12/01/10
Posts: 224
Loc: Armpit, ak
If there is something I can't stand is two psychos bad mouthing new technology. Definitely haters through and through. My feelings are truly hurt. smile
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#3089785 - 03/24/12 08:27 PM Re: Skidoo expedition 600 ACE [Re: Dirt]
Alaskan Offline
"AMY SUE"

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 4967
Loc: Gnome, Alaska
Originally Posted By: Dirt
If there is something I can't stand is two psychos bad mouthing new technology. Definitely haters through and through. My feelings are truly hurt. smile

Really? You couldn't tell just by looking at it? smile


Edited by Alaskan (03/24/12 08:27 PM)
_________________________
"Goats pee in the water sheep drink."

Life member: NRA, NTA, AkTA, AkFTA, WiTA, MnTA, MoTA, OrTA

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#3089822 - 03/24/12 08:57 PM Re: Skidoo expedition 600 ACE [Re: fishermann222]
Family Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2087
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Don't hold back there Dirt.
_________________________
Passion- There are some people who live in a dream world, and their are some who face reality; and then there are those who turn one into the other.

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#3089832 - 03/24/12 09:01 PM Re: Skidoo expedition 600 ACE [Re: Alaskan]
Dirt Online   content
trapper

Registered: 12/01/10
Posts: 224
Loc: Armpit, ak
Originally Posted By: Alaskan
Originally Posted By: Dirt
If there is something I can't stand is two psychos bad mouthing new technology. Definitely haters through and through. My feelings are truly hurt. smile

Really? You couldn't tell just by looking at it? smile


Nope, I was kinda hoping the gas mileage propaganda was true frown However, pretty easy to see things were going to get a little top heavy when you move the rider so high up off the ground. They were top heavy back in the sixties and seventies.
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Who is John Galt?

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#3089881 - 03/24/12 09:33 PM Re: Skidoo expedition 600 ACE [Re: fishermann222]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 9
Loc: Alaska
Top heavy or not (tippy or not) is probably a factor of ski stance as much as chassis design. One thing for sure riding the newer chassis is a lot easier on a bad back.

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#3090130 - 03/25/12 12:30 AM Re: Skidoo expedition 600 ACE [Re: fishermann222]
fishermann222 Offline

"OX"

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 5292
Loc: Bethel, Alaska
WB best I ahve gotten was 24 on a 100 mile trip. I am averaging under 20, right about 18-19 mpg. But our snow has been incredibly deep this year.

We did some logging today, a friend has the expo sport with the fan and he got it a little stuck, but not bad, but the snow was up to my belly and powder. We broke trail today to camp pulling a heavy sled, I had the worst milage yet. 60 miles, 2 feet of fresh snow i put in a little over 4 gallons at camp.

I do have bad news to report, on this trip, both me and the other guy with an expo sport broke our under shocks. Both have right around 2k miles. One other guy he knows broke his last weekend on the same machine. Appears skidoo skimped on the shocks.

Lessard it is not easier on the back when you break a shock, I am SORE


Edited by fishermann222 (03/25/12 01:18 AM)
_________________________
I survived the Tman crash of '06

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#3090154 - 03/25/12 01:09 AM Re: Skidoo expedition 600 ACE [Re: fishermann222]
Tradbow1 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/15/11
Posts: 52
Loc: AK
Len,

I kind of wonder and havent put to the test yet, how the tundra does with teh super wide skins on. I'm used to carving after a number of years screwing around on mountain sleds in powder. I rode a older tundra II, now THAT is tippy LOL! It had no skins.

I'd really like those boys stuck shew! There's a reason there's a full sized shovel on the one sled (and a pair of snowshoes on mine LOL).

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#3090159 - 03/25/12 01:18 AM Re: Skidoo expedition 600 ACE [Re: fishermann222]
decoy Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/24/07
Posts: 994
Loc: north Idaho
You folks are confusing me on which one is the best.
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#3090604 - 03/25/12 12:24 PM Re: Skidoo expedition 600 ACE [Re: fishermann222]
Family Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 2087
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Quote:
However, pretty easy to see things were going to get a little top heavy when you move the rider so high up off the ground.

I have moved the center of gravity up substantially on my 340 polaris and two of my Homer bravo's as many of you know. A good deal on both.
As far at the 340 I would agree that it is more top heavy. Nothing like a new tundra riding it down the trail however.
Where I notice a big change is with my ability to throw my weight while breaking trail in deep powder in the trees going slow. It is harder. It is so comfortable I get lazy to stand and throw my weight.;0) My next modification will help this.

However as far as an upgrade. Five thumbs up!!!
Being so low before it was hard to react to a near tip. Easier to traverse in slow maneuvering conditions but not worth it.

Having to come up so far from a crouched position on a near tip was harder on the low profile. Being up higher I am much more able to react to the situation.
Second is the ability to absorb big bumps. At a half stand already when I see a good bump coming I can elevate myself with little effort. Fatigue factor after a long trip. 200% improvement. And that is wearing snowshoes all day. Something that really added to the fatigue. I am totally sold on these modifications.

There is a progression to this mod that I should have taken the hint from the manufactures on it didn't compute with prior but now does. And that is the narrow seat. My next foam will have a big curve taken from the outside of box. Firm foam but narrow on top. This will allow better leaning capacity when doing the slow maneuvering in the trees and powder.
My next mod will be on my supertrac. Box and higher seat after seeing what akcowboytraper did with his. Might just ship that oldie but goodie back to the bush after a summer overhaul. Has a factory rebuild without many hours on it now. A proven line machine. The undercarriage is off and all the wheels greased. A gearbox and bearing check might just render this old machine a contender. Oh but the gas milage. But I could buy a lot of gas if I didn't throw $9500 at a new one. ;0) See dirt I do think of many options.
But I wouldn't be cool! But never really mattered.
laugh


Edited by Family Trapper (03/25/12 12:25 PM)
_________________________
Passion- There are some people who live in a dream world, and their are some who face reality; and then there are those who turn one into the other.

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#3090605 - 03/25/12 12:26 PM Re: Skidoo expedition 600 ACE [Re: fishermann222]
Alaskan Offline
"AMY SUE"

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 4967
Loc: Gnome, Alaska
Fish- are you talking about the rear shock? I'm fairly certain, with just over 400 miles, mine blew out as well.

Decoy- Need narrow stance: Tundra LT, More comfortable ride but with the Long Track footprint: Expedition. Comfort and better gas mileage: Renegade Sport.
_________________________
"Goats pee in the water sheep drink."

Life member: NRA, NTA, AkTA, AkFTA, WiTA, MnTA, MoTA, OrTA

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#3090615 - 03/25/12 12:32 PM Re: Skidoo expedition 600 ACE [Re: fishermann222]
fishermann222 Offline

"OX"

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 5292
Loc: Bethel, Alaska
yep rear shock, they are oil filled shocks I guess. THey are JUNK. Alaskan you will know it when it breaks, you can't even ride sitting down. Pretty sure I am a few inches shorter today. I fell like dirt.... LOL

I am calling ANC tomorrow and hope to find a gas filled shock that will fit.
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