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Alaska Trappers Association

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#3088298 - 03/23/12 05:53 PM Re: Tundra 550f [Re: Dirt]
Alaskan Offline
"AMY SUE"

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: Gnome, Alaska
Originally Posted By: Family Trapper
Dirt inquiry minds want to know.

No...no they don't. Dirt is two steps away from big sunglasses, a hoodie and a pile of Priority mail packages ready to go out. Seriously, the next comet that comes close Dirt will have his following...and his Kool-aid...

Not sure what Kool-aid you're serving up, but right now those 4 strokes that aren't "what its billed to be", are seeming to prove themself over and over again. Oh, i'm sure you "must have just got the bad one"...

Ugh...i'm happy for you and your bravo(s). We all agree that technological advances can create headaches out in the middle of nowhere. I don't think you're the only one that "saw that" coming. You really do have to be teh biggest hater i've seen of "new" things.

Apparently, unlike you, I'm okay with hurting people's feelings.

(One note: 440Lt is the greatest machine ever made. Sorry if this hurt anyone's feelings...not really)


Edited by Alaskan (03/23/12 05:54 PM)
_________________________
"Goats pee in the water sheep drink."

Life member: NRA, NTA, AkTA, AkFTA, WiTA, MnTA, MoTA, OrTA

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#3088337 - 03/23/12 06:29 PM Re: Tundra 550f [Re: Tradbow1]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
LOL. Motorheads Tom. Squeezing out another fraction of a horsepower. Kinda like honing the intake ports on a chevy
manifold for smoother airflow.

I would agree if it was properly done there would be no more burn down problems, but I think the same can be said for the stock carbs. If they are properly tuned there will be no problem, if not they will sieze. The Mikuni carbs are pretty sophisticated, with a lot of tuning options on the full range of the power band. Getting them properly tuned is not an easy undertaking and not something the average rider is going to accomplish. (A big portion of the dealerships can't do it either. A lot of them don't know that they don't know, so they think they can).
At the factory of course they have the equipment and expertise to set them up properly. But, varying altitude and a wide range of temperatures makes it impossible to tune them at the factory for peak performance throughout North America. So some additional tuning needs to be done at the dealerships. If the dealerships mechanic does not COMPLETELY understand what he is doing he can screw up the carb (and make it worse even). So, the prospect is VERY high to get a brand new machine from a dealer, that is not properly tuned and will melt down on you.
Then, throw in the fact that slight undetectable differences
in individual engines could require different jets and settings
from one machine to the next and the complexity of things
increases a little more. Properly tuning one requires steps of running the machine for a time at varying RPM's, shutting it off, and inspecting the spark plug coloration. This takes
a lot of time and the dealers can't do it for each machine.
So they set them all up as close as they can based on factory test and that's the way they go out the door. They are under warranty and if you mess with it the warranty is voided. So all you can do is run her. If she blows, it's under warranty. If the dealership gets a bunch of that particular machine back for warranty work they will have to get their act together and do some different adjustments. It's a tough deal, tougher than most people realize. It's easy to blame a particular engine or a dealership or whatever, when in fact it is the difficult nature of things, and those involved may be doing the best that can reasonably be expected of them. With the huge volume of machines sold it's no surprise that once in a while something is going to fall through the cracks.
So, the question could be asked "why not build a better
carburetor"? Well, take an engine that has to run on a range of from around 600 RPM up to close to 10,000 RPM, one that spits pressure both ways through a carb each stroke of the
piston, is ran anywhere from sea level up to maybe 12,000 ft
or more, in temps ranging from maybe 70 above down to 70 below, and you have some tough perimeters to deal with. There has been a few different designs made, but so far no one has came up with one that beats a Mikuni carb. (not talking fuel injection here). For a long time Tillotsons were the best but they went by the wayside when Mikuni's came out.

Anyway, I expect the 550's that are siezing were set up wrong at the factory and at some RPM across the spectrum they are running too lean.

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#3088355 - 03/23/12 06:41 PM Re: Tundra 550f [Re: Tradbow1]
drasselt Offline
trapper

Registered: 05/17/10
Loc: Alaska
Oh man spek. I think most of us just want a dependable trapping rig. Thanks for the insight.

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#3088360 - 03/23/12 06:45 PM Re: Tundra 550f [Re: Alaskan]
Dirt Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/01/10
Loc: Armpit, ak
Originally Posted By: Alaskan

Apparently, unlike you, I'm okay with hurting people's feelings.

( Sorry if this hurt anyone's feelings...not really)


I figure that is why you are going to be so effective as a BOD of ATA. LOL
_________________________
Who is John Galt?

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#3088374 - 03/23/12 06:51 PM Re: Tundra 550f [Re: Tradbow1]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Man, I need to learn to type faster. This pick and peck just
don't cut it.

Alaskan, you're wrong, I'm the biggest hater of new things. Just about the time I figure out all the answers they change the dang questions. Changing so fast I can't keep up with it. 'Course I'm not going through as many machines as I used to, so not working on them as much. The old 340 colts and Elans you could overhaul in the middle of the trail with a 10" crescent wrench and a pair of pliers. You didn't need long extensions and wobble joint sockets.

Dirt, I'll take you up on that. "One" beer though, you don't want to be around me when I've had two. smile

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#3088384 - 03/23/12 06:58 PM Re: Tundra 550f [Re: Spek Jones]
Alaskan Offline
"AMY SUE"

Registered: 12/22/06
Loc: Gnome, Alaska
Originally Posted By: Spek Jones
Alaskan, you're wrong, I'm the biggest hater of new things.

I stand corrected. laugh
_________________________
"Goats pee in the water sheep drink."

Life member: NRA, NTA, AkTA, AkFTA, WiTA, MnTA, MoTA, OrTA

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#3088392 - 03/23/12 07:04 PM Re: Tundra 550f [Re: Tradbow1]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Apology accepted.

smile

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#3088402 - 03/23/12 07:16 PM Re: Tundra 550f [Re: Spek Jones]
watarrat Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/04/10
Loc: Lake Iliamna Ak
Spek,,,,,I'm glad it's something that happened at the factory that's blowing up my 550's, I thought I'd done something bad.

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#3088409 - 03/23/12 07:22 PM Re: Tundra 550f [Re: drasselt]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Originally Posted By: drasselt
Oh man spek. I think most of us just want a dependable trapping rig. Thanks for the insight.


Yeah, I agree. I just wanted to explain a little why that
sometimes doesn't happen. Hate to see people sell a machine or get down on a particular model of machine when the machines may only need a tune up. Pretty serious oop's when 10,000 machines go out the door with the wrong jets in them though. Anybody running one should do a series of spark plug checks and see if they are running too lean.

But hey, if anyone along the road system has one that's off warranty, with or without a siezed piston, that they want to sell, let me know. (550 tundra that is).



Edited by Spek Jones (03/23/12 07:24 PM)

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#3088417 - 03/23/12 07:27 PM Re: Tundra 550f [Re: Tradbow1]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Wow Waterrat, you don't do nothing halfhashed do you?

Looks like the other side was about to melt as well, way to
shiny on top.

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#3088436 - 03/23/12 07:36 PM Re: Tundra 550f [Re: Tradbow1]
Dirt Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/01/10
Loc: Armpit, ak
Well let me put it this way Alaskan I am a business trapper. It makes little sense to pay $10,000 on a snowmachine that may not perform as well as my existing equipment. May be less dependable and going to have higher maintenance cost. Even if said snowmachine were more dependable and performed better is it $10,000 more dependable or performable. I guess that is what FT is trying to determine.
_________________________
Who is John Galt?

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#3088512 - 03/23/12 08:11 PM Re: Tundra 550f [Re: Tradbow1]
piperniner Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Alaska
Speck :

I don't think you understand Alaskans personality - it was not an apology, he said he stood corrected. I just don't want you to hurt his feelings.

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#3088583 - 03/23/12 08:45 PM Re: Tundra 550f [Re: Tradbow1]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Thanks Pniner. Yeah, I need to be more "sensitive", don't need any more
whining. My bad.

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#3088689 - 03/23/12 09:50 PM Re: Tundra 550f [Re: Tradbow1]
Family Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Homer, Alaska
I been riding used machines for a long time. Well not counting the bravo in 06. ;0) Last big new machine was in 1989 I think. Polaris Supertrac. Guess it is about time. Or is it?
Dirt I hear your argument.
It is as much financial as it is getting on the band wagon of having a nice new machine. But! If I didn't think I could pay for it trapping it would not be even a consideration. And if I didn't think it would put substantially more fur in the auction at the end of the year it would not be an option.
I can do what I do with what I have. I could do a lot better job, with less hassle with a different machine.
A good used machine would probably fit the bill. How good is the question.
I bought the bravo new and blew it up at 60 miles. Had to buy a used one to get trapping that month dealing with warranty work.

It could be painful no matter where you land on this teeter totter.


_________________________
Passion- There are some people who live in a dream world, and their are some who face reality; and then there are those who turn one into the other.

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#3088714 - 03/23/12 10:06 PM Re: Tundra 550f [Re: Tradbow1]
Dirt Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/01/10
Loc: Armpit, ak
FT when it comes to snowmachines you gotta figure there gonna break. The last (and most likely last) new machine broke down in about a month. Hence ONE of the reasons I don't change. I have spare motors and a large supply of spare parts for my four trapping machines. I can do a lot of field repairs. If one goes down, if I have time, I can have it fixed by the next day. If not I grab another and fix the broke one when I get time. I also know how to fix my machines and am fairly fast due to experience. I know the things that are most likely to break and can monitor these areas. New machine = new learning curve. And IMO Mr. Tradbow learned a hard lesson that he may well have not been able to afford. If he would have been further out and maybe sweaty from overexertion he may have learned his last lesson ever.


Edited by Dirt (03/24/12 12:52 AM)
_________________________
Who is John Galt?

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#3088733 - 03/23/12 10:19 PM Re: Tundra 550f [Re: Tradbow1]
Tradbow1 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/15/11
Loc: AK
Now dirt......I am no rookie to the wilds of alaska wink. I hunt sheep alone, heck I do most things alone, but 100 miles out on a trapline without some form of "oh S(*& I'm broke come save me" isnt going to happen. but thanks for the vote of confidence. If I was deathly afraid I'd die at every turn in the road I'd never drive my car again, have a beer, instead opting for a bubble house. :P I am not a great trapper...heck I do it for fun, knowing I'm paying to do it and I'll likely never in my life time break even at my exspenses of doing it, instead enjoying what little I catch, and the places I get to experience it in...and at times, the people I get to share it with.

I'd love to find the 'perfect' sled, sell this and take a loss?...with a 5 year warrenty I have plenty of time to work some kinks out. If she keeps blowing motors, I'm sure the dealer will work the kinks out faster than I can lol...if nothing else than the bad publicity of a poor product. That will remain to be seen.

FT,

I already had plans on the frog skinz over atleast the main vent. I blew it up before I could get'r covered. Now stop buying up all the used tundra R's so I can snatch one wink. Its pretty apparent I'll be needing a backup or 3.

One recommendation the dealer had, to cover ALL the vents...though he mentioned it would make the sled hotter which leaves me scratching my head, wondering if she'll need rejetting due to this, or if not, when she'll blow again. They also said to run a half bottole of heat in EVERY Tank of fuel. It almost makes me want to disable the oiler all together and just run mixed which would likely solve atleast the blown motor issue all together. Than you hear of the guys getting 7-8000 miles on a rebuild. I'd be happy with half or 2/3rds of that honestly.

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#3088849 - 03/23/12 11:50 PM Re: Tundra 550f [Re: Tradbow1]
TrapperTy Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/03/07
Loc: Alaska
I guess I am used to living 500 miles away from the nearest authorized Skidoo dealer. If a snowgo breaks here the warranty doesn't matter much if it costs $1500 in shipping every time it blows. Keep this thread going it will be interesting to figure out what the 550 gremlin is. Have you compared jetting specs between older and newer 550's?

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#3088865 - 03/24/12 12:14 AM Re: Tundra 550f [Re: Tradbow1]
Tradbow1 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/15/11
Loc: AK
Ty,

I've been reading a bunch while it was in the shop. The tech didnt say what jets where in it, or the needle positions but I did find a site giving factory stuff on all the more current sleds (I didnt look to see how far back it goes).

HOpefully this link works... http://www.stbonimotorsports.com/2012skidoo.htm

Up till shew blew I didnt look at the settings and according to them they made none. There is two different jets though I'm not sure which is which yet.

Some sites did recommend going to the 45's if you're running 35's (I believe this was the remedy to the 2010 blown motor problem along with moving the needle from 3 to 4), it was also supposed to help with the backfire on startup though if thats my only problem I can live with that. there were others mentiong a needle kit to increase position of your needles in 1/4" increments and not hole number increments....ie moving to a 4th needle position would richen it too much yet 3 was too lean. Something to keep in mind if you get to tinkering. I plan after running this mixed tank through, checking my plugs quite a bit before spring and getting miles on it and see what I find. Who knows maybe the carbs icing was the problem itself, time will tell.

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#3088869 - 03/24/12 12:22 AM Re: Tundra 550f [Re: Tradbow1]
Dirt Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/01/10
Loc: Armpit, ak
The only experience I have with the 550 fan was in the Skandic SUV widetrack. I was on a spring Bear hunt in I think 2005. The thing I remember was it was a gas sucking pig. It used more gas then a Bravo, Tundra II, and a Skandic 380 combined. Performed fine, but just about ran us out of gas.
_________________________
Who is John Galt?

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#3088881 - 03/24/12 01:11 AM Re: Tundra 550f [Re: Tradbow1]
Spek Jones Offline
"FATHER"

Registered: 01/10/09
Loc: Homer, Alaska
You don't have to run half a jug of heet in every tank, all the time, but in bad powder conditions, it should be done.
If backfiring on start up is happening a lot on the 550's that indicates
a timing problem, which can cause predetonation and the temp inside the cylinder to spike dramatically. It's something that needs mentioned to the dealers.

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