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#2854897 - 11/27/11 09:31 PM Re: Marten fleshing and boarding question? [Re: Farm Boy]
alaska viking Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/25/07
Loc: juneau, alaska
That's the craziest looking beaver tack-out I've ever seen!
The "pucker the back" mink is what got me doing marten the same way. No denying that they at least "appear" much fuller that way.
Until I get dinged for it, that is how I will continue to do it.
_________________________
Intellectual capacity is no guarantee against being dead wrong.
Carl Sagan.

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#2854924 - 11/27/11 09:41 PM Re: Marten fleshing and boarding question? [Re: trapper ron]
trapper ron Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/08/08
Loc: Kelowna BC Canada
[quote=trapper ron]If that tail has the tail bone removed, it is split, and dries without slipping or a rotten smell there will be no deduction in the grade of the marten. Having said that I would recommend that you put in more than one pin to ensure proper drying. In my opinion one at the end and one across from each other in two other places ensures drying. They will probably dry with just one at the tip. Try a few in different ways to see. My preference is a 1/4 inch screen and two tacks to hold it in place. Cardboard will do the same as screen. If that marten has only half or a quarter of a tail it will not be down graded for that purpose. Never will I put rows and rows of pins along any tail on any species.

I am seeing that some of you may not have read this previous post. I do promote the proper drying of the tails. Just there is more than one way to do it and there is no grade deduction for one way or another. The graders do not even look at the tail.
_________________________
Ron Lancour
Director BCTA
Trapping Instructor
NAFA Trapper Consultant

"It's what you learn after you know it all that really counts."

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#2854933 - 11/27/11 09:48 PM Re: Marten fleshing and boarding question? [Re: Farm Boy]
alaska viking Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/25/07
Loc: juneau, alaska
So can I simply cut it of, say an inch below the base, and receive the same grade as if it were attached?
I've been 'dinged on this for weasel.
Not sarcastic, just wondering.
_________________________
Intellectual capacity is no guarantee against being dead wrong.
Carl Sagan.

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#2854941 - 11/27/11 09:54 PM Re: Marten fleshing and boarding question? [Re: Farm Boy]
Bushman Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/28/06
Loc: Alberta
Ron you pretty much confirmed how I've been handling marten for the last decade. I think screwed up marten boards cost trappers more money than where the feet are placed, or how many pins are in the tails. I agree that the two big changes were when Boards narrowed down, and we didn't have to leave the front legs on the outside of the pelt. Remember when they didn't care about colour for a couple years as they were dying them? As far as i'm concerned marten is the best fur you can have on your trapline, nice to handle and a consistent earner.
_________________________
www.sheepcreek.net www.compassmedia.ca

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#2854976 - 11/27/11 10:07 PM Re: Marten fleshing and boarding question? [Re: alaska viking]
trapper ron Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/08/08
Loc: Kelowna BC Canada
Originally Posted By: alaska viking
So can I simply cut it of, say an inch below the base, and receive the same grade as if it were attached?
I've been 'dinged on this for weasel.
Not sarcastic, just wondering.


If you only did that to one or two there would be no price difference.

Sometimes there are marten in the top lots that have only part tails or even missing tails. Having said that the marten without tails form only a small percentage of the total collection. As they are of some value to the furrier, as I posted above, if all were missing or a high percentage there may be some pricing adjustment.

Now for your tailless ermine. That could be as there is a different use. A lot of ermine are used whole with tail attached in the native ceremonial traditional dress trade and head wear. That is the only reason I could suggest. Was this NAFA or a country buyer ? It's another good question I will pursue, I have never seen a grade sheet showing that.
_________________________
Ron Lancour
Director BCTA
Trapping Instructor
NAFA Trapper Consultant

"It's what you learn after you know it all that really counts."

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#2854977 - 11/27/11 10:08 PM Re: Marten fleshing and boarding question? [Re: trapper ron]
trapper ron Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/08/08
Loc: Kelowna BC Canada
trapped4ever that looks like a superb job on that otter. smile
_________________________
Ron Lancour
Director BCTA
Trapping Instructor
NAFA Trapper Consultant

"It's what you learn after you know it all that really counts."

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#2854992 - 11/27/11 10:20 PM Re: Marten fleshing and boarding question? [Re: Farm Boy]
yukon254 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/31/08
Loc: Yukon
trapped4ever my friend says the dental floss saves him tons of time. He just makes a loop, and wraps it around the base near the tail, then continues wrapping the floss around around the board down toward the tip of the tail, spreading the tail as he goes. He has a slit in his marten board where he can bind the floss (much like a roll of thread has) I have never tried this method but he sure like it.
_________________________
do unto others as you would have them do unto you

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#2854999 - 11/27/11 10:22 PM Re: Marten fleshing and boarding question? [Re: Farm Boy]
yukon254 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/31/08
Loc: Yukon
trapped4ever my friend says the dental floss saves him tons of time. He just makes a loop, and wraps it around the base near the tail, then continues wrapping the floss around around the board down toward the tip of the tail, spreading the tail as he goes. He has a slit in his marten board where he can bind the floss (much like a roll of thread has) I have never tried this method but he sure like it.

Ron I realize the same method (screen) can be used for marten, I do a lot of mine that way. My point was why do it? One or two pins is much faster.
_________________________
do unto others as you would have them do unto you

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#2855020 - 11/27/11 10:38 PM Re: Marten fleshing and boarding question? [Re: yukon254]
trapper ron Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/08/08
Loc: Kelowna BC Canada
Originally Posted By: yukon254
Ron I realize the same method (screen) can be used for marten, I do a lot of mine that way. My point was why do it? One or two pins is much faster.


Exactly. My preference would be 5 pins, one at the end and two on each side at 1/3 and 2/3 along the tail. very fast to do and ensures drying.

Did you read my PM .. give me a call or PM me with your number and I will call you.


Edited by trapper ron (11/27/11 10:38 PM)
_________________________
Ron Lancour
Director BCTA
Trapping Instructor
NAFA Trapper Consultant

"It's what you learn after you know it all that really counts."

Top
#2855092 - 11/27/11 11:54 PM Re: Marten fleshing and boarding question? [Re: Farm Boy]
yukon254 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/31/08
Loc: Yukon
Ron yes I read your PM. Will give you a call tomorrow. I think we are on the same page. I said from my first post that spreading the tails was how I have always been told to do it. I must have misunderstood you, I thought you were advocating the one or two pin method.
_________________________
do unto others as you would have them do unto you

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#2855377 - 11/28/11 09:38 AM Re: Marten fleshing and boarding question? [Re: Farm Boy]
alaska viking Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/25/07
Loc: juneau, alaska
The ermine went to NAFA.
_________________________
Intellectual capacity is no guarantee against being dead wrong.
Carl Sagan.

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#2855497 - 11/28/11 11:36 AM Re: Marten fleshing and boarding question? [Re: alaska viking]
trapper ron Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/08/08
Loc: Kelowna BC Canada
Originally Posted By: alaska viking
The ermine went to NAFA.


I guess what I'm asking is how do you know it was downgraded because of the tail missing. Did your grade sheet say that?
_________________________
Ron Lancour
Director BCTA
Trapping Instructor
NAFA Trapper Consultant

"It's what you learn after you know it all that really counts."

Top
#2855803 - 11/28/11 03:13 PM Re: Marten fleshing and boarding question? [Re: trapper ron]
trapper ron Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/08/08
Loc: Kelowna BC Canada
Well the discussion has really quieted down today on this subject. We had a great civil discussion on this subject. Today the phone lines have been burning up between myself and Yukon250, between Dave Bewick and myself and between Dave Bewick and Yukon250. I think Yukon is also going to have a chat with Ms Demers the marten grader for NAFA.

Marten (Sable) are very important pelts for the trapper, the auction and the fur industry. They are easy to harvest and one of the easier species to put up.

Here are some conclusions and perhaps Yukon250 may have some additions.

It is safe to say we are all on the same page and have been all along. There was a bit of misinformation on deductions for feet and tails. To reiterate, they do not grade feet and tails, and there is no grade deduction for feet and tails.

The fur auctions want to see a "well handled" pelt.

So what should the standard be? It is important to take the bone out of the tail and split the tail. It needs to be dry so it will not rot as it does have a commercial value down the line. One pin, 30 pins, cardboard, screen or what? In order to achieve the objectives of drying the tail the minimum should be 5 pins, one at the end, two other sets of two across from each other, or 5 pins total (our suggestion). A screen, cardboard, or many pins does make a very nice job but is probably overkill as far as the commercial fur industry is concerned. Once again you will not receive a downgrade by only using one pin, but it is a fur handling improvement to use a couple more to ensure proper drying.

What about boarding the legs, back, side, or belly side? It makes no matter. Having said that, the pelt will look much better and fuller with the legs on the side or the back, it has a better appearance. Again no grade downgrade as to where you place them. Where it can count, the “wow” factor if you will is when there is another minor factor to do with quality where the grader has to make a decision of one grade pile or another. These decisions are made in a split second. A better handled pelt, more visually aesthetic if you will, could get pushed to the better grade. Probably this is more of a sub conscience decision than a conscious one. Again here we stress well handled pelts. The competition type fur handling will not give an advantage over the well handled pelt as described above.

What else about the legs? The rear legs can be cut off at the joint above the foot. The front legs cut off at the joint above the foot or the next joint up. You can leave the feet on if you prefer. Split those front legs and use a couple of pins to spread then on a cardboard or piece of wood to ensure drying before turning. A pelt board placed straight out so the front legs hang down free of the rest of the pelt works great also. After turning leave the front legs inside. This will prevent the chance of tearing in the drum or shaker process.

What else? DO NOT LEAVE CLAWS ATTACHED. Use pelt boards of recommended shape and size. When you turn your fur make sure it is straight on the board, no belly fur on the back, for the rest of the drying process. Another tip is to leave the saddle on to avoid a papery pelt.

There is very little you can do to change the quality of a pelt but you can gain an advantage by achieving maximum size. Above in this thread are some good suggestions to achieve this as well as some other good tips. Just don’t use your vice grips to stretch. Every trapper has his own methods of how he reaches the well “handled pelt” and we do not dispute that. I will add some pictures as I take some newer ones.

The last conclusion is the white17 will have to buy another box of push pins for camp instead of a new box of crayons this year.


Edited by trapper ron (11/28/11 03:17 PM)
_________________________
Ron Lancour
Director BCTA
Trapping Instructor
NAFA Trapper Consultant

"It's what you learn after you know it all that really counts."

Top
#2855813 - 11/28/11 03:22 PM Re: Marten fleshing and boarding question? [Re: Farm Boy]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Loc: McGrath, AK
Nope I have two boxes and can get by with that. It does surprise me to see some guys using plastic push pins. Must not have had any break and jam that rusted steel shank into their thumb.

While I do leave the feet on I also clip the claws with a pair of wire cutters.

I have to ask...what are you referring to as " competition type fur handling" ??


Thanks for all effort Ron.
_________________________
Mean As Nails

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#2855834 - 11/28/11 03:43 PM Re: Marten fleshing and boarding question? [Re: Farm Boy]
Family Trapper Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Loc: Homer, Alaska
I have had the metal push pins but for marten and other thin board stretchers I prefer plastic as the steel shanks are shorter and I can get use of the flat plastic base that I can't on the metal long shanked pins.
_________________________
Passion- There are some people who live in a dream world, and their are some who face reality; and then there are those who turn one into the other.

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#2855844 - 11/28/11 03:48 PM Re: Marten fleshing and boarding question? [Re: Farm Boy]
FishinHank Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/25/08
Loc: PWS, AK
I have a question. I know a lot of guys use pretty thick stretchers, but mine are only about 1/4" thick ( I use the marten/mink stretchers from MTP). Does anyone think that I could get docked because they on thinner stretchers?
_________________________
[TravC]: an educated coyote is like a fat girl on the diet....she dont slip up with a cheeseburger but sooner or later she goes for the bigmack

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#2855849 - 11/28/11 03:55 PM Re: Marten fleshing and boarding question? [Re: Farm Boy]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Loc: McGrath, AK
Never thought of that Len. I don't push my pins in quite that far.

Hank, I have always had a hunch that thin boards distort the hide from it's normal proportions but I could be wrong. I used some commercial 1/4" boards once and didn't like them at all.
_________________________
Mean As Nails

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#2855861 - 11/28/11 04:02 PM Re: Marten fleshing and boarding question? [Re: Farm Boy]
Pittu Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/09/07
Loc: Alaska
One would think you could buy another inch or something in length using a thinner board. I use 3/4" homemade boards and I rarely have marten that dont stretch xl. Maybe the few larges I board could make the magic length using a 1/2" or thinner board...

Maybe I'll have to make one out of plywood just to try out on a smaller marten...

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#2855868 - 11/28/11 04:05 PM Re: Marten fleshing and boarding question? [Re: white17]
trapper ron Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/08/08
Loc: Kelowna BC Canada
Originally Posted By: white17
Nope I have two boxes and can get by with that. It does surprise me to see some guys using plastic push pins. Must not have had any break and jam that rusted steel shank into their thumb.

While I do leave the feet on I also clip the claws with a pair of wire cutters.

I have to ask...what are you referring to as " competition type fur handling" ??


Thanks for all effort Ron.


I split the hind legs starting at splitting the pads then to ahead of the anus following the color change. Then start at the ankle joint, or that first large joint, with my thumb and fingers to work the hide loose. Pull the pelt from the feet and this usually takes all of the fur and leaves the claws on the carcass.

Competition fur: This is fur put up for fur handling competitions at Trapper , rendezvous, flings, or what every your Association calls it's together. These pelts are handled in such a manner as to outdo your competitors. Some will go so far as to measure the distance between each pin on the tail and the legs. Some will stitch up every orifice. Great care is taken to make sure it is absolutely straight on the board. The paws are spread out absolutely perfect with every bit of fur intact and matching each other. The pelt is absolutely clean of any fat on the skirt, pitch in the fur, or any blood.

Push pins: I have many 1/2 inch pins as opposed to the newer 5/8 pins. Anyone know if they are still available in that size. I am not a fan of plastic and do prefer the 5/8. Family Trapper have you tried those half inch metal ones ?
_________________________
Ron Lancour
Director BCTA
Trapping Instructor
NAFA Trapper Consultant

"It's what you learn after you know it all that really counts."

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#2855874 - 11/28/11 04:08 PM Re: Marten fleshing and boarding question? [Re: Farm Boy]
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"

Registered: 03/17/07
Loc: McGrath, AK
Thanks Ron. Dang those city guys must not have enough to do !
_________________________
Mean As Nails

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