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Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Gary] #283199
08/03/07 12:43 PM
08/03/07 12:43 PM
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Posts: 3,036
New York
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Fire Fly Guy Offline
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I can see you point of view Gary, but I can also see Asa's. I have been around animals all my life. And I can tell you that dog's are born to be interested in cat's. That Horses can smell danger, not sure if it's through experience like you mentioned gary.

Maybe young mink learn from their mothers that weasels are the enemy, kind like coyote and fox? Or are the just natural enimies and have the urge to fight?

It's all good stuff. Neither answer is right or wrong but I think are just one more peice of the puzzle.


.
Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Fire Fly Guy] #283208
08/03/07 12:51 PM
08/03/07 12:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,915
Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
Gary Offline
trapper
Gary  Offline
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Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
are dogs born to be interested in cats ?? or when they are pups they are curious by the smell (scent) of the cat and when approaching the source ... the source runs and the chase instinct kicks in ... and the dog learns at a very early age that this is sumthin they can chase ?? and on that note ... how many times have ya been to a farm with an old tom cat and a dog that has learned its lesson many of times that this cat is not to be messed with ... and when it comes upon the smell of the cat the dog will drop its head and tuck its tail ??


Possums and fanged beaver Skeer Me frown
Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Gary] #283217
08/03/07 01:00 PM
08/03/07 01:00 PM
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Posts: 3,036
New York
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Fire Fly Guy Offline
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New York
 Originally Posted By: Gary
are dogs born to be interested in cats ?? or when they are pups they are curious by the smell (scent) of the cat and when approaching the source ... the source runs and the chase instinct kicks in ... and the dog learns at a very early age that this is sumthin they can chase ?? and on that note ... how many times have ya been to a farm with an old tom cat and a dog that has learned its lesson many of times that this cat is not to be messed with ... and when it comes upon the smell of the cat the dog will drop its head and tuck its tail ??


Can't argue that!

Last edited by A.J.; 08/03/07 01:02 PM.

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Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Salthunter] #283824
08/04/07 07:45 AM
08/04/07 07:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 660
Maine
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DLM Offline
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Maine
90% of my mink sets are blind sets.
IF I use bait ,its usually fresh -fresh water clams, some times I also use trout heads & guts that I keep from fishing. I take the clams and smash the shells and place in the freezer in plastic containers. I use a whole clam (shell and all). The shine of the shell helps attack them. Its better than just the clam meat, plus it keeps it from floating away. I place them in cracks in ledges or between rocks that funnel in the mink. I trap mountain streams that are nothing but rocky. I never use lure.

Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: DLM] #283872
08/04/07 08:59 AM
08/04/07 08:59 AM
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Posts: 6,163
Gulliver, Michigan
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Asa Lenon Offline
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Gulliver, Michigan
Many times over the years some top Western trappers have sent me some lures to test for them in my locality. Some of those lures were rattlesnake based lures which worked great for those trappers. Coyotes in my locality where there are no rattlesnakes generally avoided these scents like the plague even though they never smelled or saw a rattlesnake or any poisonous snake in this country. Coyotes definitely didn't want to get close to a hole emitting this odor so it seems to me that it is in their inherent nature or something in the make-up of the odor for them recognize potential danger.
Many trappers from specific areas always tell me that dirthole sets don't work well in those localities. Holes in the ground probably represent danger in areas with poisonous snakes and wasp nests made in holes in the ground. To a lesser extent but still noticible to me is the reluctance of fox and coyote in my area to stick their noses in holes emitting the odor of mink musk or weasel musk which are both abundant in this region. Again, I believe they many times inherently associate these animals with being fiesty and agressive and to be cautious of them. I have experimented with many canine lure formulas containing mink musk and/or weasel musk always with the same results, a certain percentage of canines appearing to be wary about stepping right up to the set. Then I would apply the same formula minus the mink or weasel musk and the wary actions would always cease. Whether this displayed caution is inherent in their nature, a learned response or a combination of both I don't know. I don't add either of those musks to any of my lures. Don't get me wrong here, I caught a truckload of canines with the lures containing mink or weasel musk, its just that I received too many near misses by canines trying to look or dig into the hole from the side or back appearing reluctant to square away directly in front of the hole. This also reminds me of a Samoyed I once had, cornered a woodchuck in a crevice in a rock pile and the woodchuck slashed the Samoyed on the nose. That dog would never go near a woodchuck or rockpile again. I used to laugh, everytime we drove past that rock pile the Samoyed would look the other way, she didn't even want to see that place again let alone visit it. Ace

Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Asa Lenon] #283891
08/04/07 09:26 AM
08/04/07 09:26 AM
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Posts: 1,673
West, Mi
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Thats funny Asa, i have a lab/newfie mix and we had a monster blue racer snake come across our yard. well the dog never played with a big snake before, so he went over and started to sniff the snake and it grabbed hold of his nose till the blood poured out. that snake went into a hole, and to this day that dog wont stick his head anywhere near a hole that has snake smell near it. i did laugh my but off he got beat bye a snake, and he weights 140 lbs.

Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Asa Lenon] #283895
08/04/07 09:37 AM
08/04/07 09:37 AM
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Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
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I have been staying out of the mink thread for the most part because I just do not trap many mink. However I spent much of my life raising them and have seen them interact. Some ranch mink are very aggressive and will take on ANYTHING, some are a bit more passive by mink standards, but still have a weasel's bad attitude. Oddly enough, the darker color mink, or those closer to the "wild" coloration, tended to be the more aggressive, while the white mink, or "pearls" were a bit easier to get along with. I always assumed this had to do with the breeding out of certain things while trying to achieve the pelt color.

I will qualify this by saying those responding to this thread have tons more trapped mink under thier belt than I. However I have probably observed more live mink (ranch mink) than many people, not just in pens, but also many times while they are running loose and interacting with dogs, other mink, etc. We had some people let a whole lot of them loose one time, and it was just a flat out free for all mink fight, and was pretty nasty. The A/R types that do this do not do the ranch animals a favor at all.

I have just found them to not be afraid of much of anything. I tend to think that mink musk improves a set as I have trapped a few, and have found repeat catches to be normal. Maybe that speaks to the location, however it also speaks to the fact that mink musk does not act as a repellant.

I also believe that mink/weasel glands are an improvement to a canine bait or set. I do not have much access to weasel glands but would consider them to be an improvement to any set, lure, or bait.


Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: ] #283913
08/04/07 09:57 AM
08/04/07 09:57 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 14
North Central Iowa
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Furman Offline
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North Central Iowa
I haven’t seen where canines are spooked from mink glands actually I have had good luck with them.

When I was growing up our family had a mixed dog had had a run in with a woodchuck one day and had his butt kick buy it from that day on he hated chucks with a passion. His one goal in life after that was kill them. No different than training a coon hound and having the dog get into a fight with a coon and it turns them on to hunting them.

On mink glands and trapping mink it’s my experience that fresh fish beats lure hands down. Now on the weasel glands that’s something that I will have to give a try thins coming fall.

I think that everyone has there now point of view on how thing work and if they work you and don’t for others so what, it’s how things work in trapping. One thing that I watch for is when some one says that this lure or urine is junk and there total catch is 2 coon and an opossum. To really know about a lure you have to use more that a oz.


NTA,FTA,ITA
Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Furman] #283961
08/04/07 11:06 AM
08/04/07 11:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,915
Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
Gary Offline
trapper
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Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
asa this is not an attack on you or anything of the sort ..... im just tryin to pick at ya mind and dig deeper into ya thoughts ..... but .... why in the world would such a bait work so well out west (where there are MANY more venomous snakes) and not work where you are located?? i would think it would have to be sumthin else at work there ..... i have noticed that sum lures and baits work better in different situations and how it is presented ... i have also watched footage of yotes killin and eatin rattlers .... ALSO ... one would think that unless a yote had a bad encounter with a venomous snake that they wouldnt feared of em .... AND ... how can they tell if the snake is a venomous snake and not a harmless one ??? ill also add that from what i have seen here .... snakes are a BIG food source for pups as well as adults ... as far as ya dog.... CONDITIONING .... what ive been tryin to push here for awhile .... again ... please dont take this in a wrong manner ... im just tryin to throw out things and learn .... thanx for ya time .... Gary


Possums and fanged beaver Skeer Me frown
Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Gary] #283989
08/04/07 11:48 AM
08/04/07 11:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,163
Gulliver, Michigan
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Asa Lenon Offline
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Gulliver, Michigan
I understand what your saying Gary and I don't have any affirmative answers to your questions, I can only guess at the reasons for the outcome of my testing and experiences. When a topic like this is thrown out it sometimes starts to unravel the mystery and put a new perspective on things. I've learned as much as I have offered in my years on this forum. Ace

Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Asa Lenon] #283999
08/04/07 12:02 PM
08/04/07 12:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,915
Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
Gary Offline
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Gary  Offline
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Posts: 12,915
Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
well dang .... figured id get more out of ya than that .... lol ... i know what ya mean ....all we can do is take educated guesses as what is goin on in their minds .... thats why i love this forum so much ... get a buncha minds together and can come up with ALOT of insight and GUESSES ..... sift thru them all and figure out what may best fit the needs on a particular trapline .... thanx again


Possums and fanged beaver Skeer Me frown
Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Gary] #284336
08/04/07 09:36 PM
08/04/07 09:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,971
Ohio
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Computer Hater Offline
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Ohio
Interesting thread. Read a little bit of it before I went to Goshen.

I'll offer my 2 cents.

Most mink will not shy from mink musk that has been let loose by a captured mink. Seen it too many times on my line to believe differently. On many occasions I will catch a mink 2 or 3 days in a row in a set that smells very minky. Females, young bucks, big bucks. Doesn't seem to matter. I think they are curious as to what happened and have to investigate.

But, I'll top that. Eric Space uses snares only on his New Jersey mink line. Those mink stir up quite a mess and you can smell the sets a good ways off. The number of repeat catches he gets in the same sets are quite high. 10 to 15 at times over a 3 or 4 week period. Unless those mink have severe allergies they can smell the musk.

I don't use lure much. Occasionally someone gives me a bottle to try and I will experiment with so so results. If I'm making pockets I'll bait with muskrat, fish, or mink carcasses. I will also take the fresh glands and use them on occasion at a pocket set.

I definitely agree that weasel is very attractive to mink. I don't catch many weasels but when I do I usually catch a mink in the same spot.

I've been trapping mink hard for close to 20 years now and I see a lot of thoughts and theories in books etc. I've found some to be true and others not so true at least on my lines. Thought I would offer this counter opinion to Asa.

Asa I would appreciate if you would respond, especially to the numbers that Eric space takes in his sets. I've ridden with Eric and he knows his stuff.


Randy
Member NTA, FTA
Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Computer Hater] #284370
08/04/07 10:03 PM
08/04/07 10:03 PM
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Posts: 6,163
Gulliver, Michigan
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Asa Lenon Offline
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Gulliver, Michigan
Computer Hater writes...
Asa I would appreciate if you would respond, especially to the numbers that Eric space takes in his sets. I've ridden with Eric and he knows his stuff.

With all due respect, being that I don't know you or Eric I would have to ask not how many mink one caught or how many years they trapped but how many more mink they might have taken with the same number of traps, sets and time expended had they used lesser amounts of mink musk at the sets. In all honesty did Eric ever do any testing of varying amounts of musk???? Ace

Last edited by Asa Lenon; 08/04/07 10:04 PM.
Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Asa Lenon] #284406
08/04/07 10:50 PM
08/04/07 10:50 PM
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Ohio
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Ohio
Eric and his family used to raise mink. He has a lot of knowledge and thoughts on mink habits and mink musk. I don't know if he ever did any testing. I'll ask him at the OSTA convention in Sept.

I will add this. Eric does most of his mink trapping in Feb. and March when the rut is on. I would imagine that because of the rut, at least in Eric's case, that the mink are more attracted to the scent of others. But, with that said I can defer back to my own line which is ran in early November until anywhere from mid December to mid January. I have similar results.

You ask how many more mink might I take if less mink musk was used at the my sets. THAT IS MY POINT. (caps. for emphasis) I have no control over how much mink smell is left at the sets by the preceding captured mink. I don't use mink lure except occasionally as I stated above. I have other sets up and down the creeks but a lot of the mink continue to get caught in the set that the previous mink got caught in. That tells me that even if they are somewhat afraid their curiousity overrides that fear in a lot of cases and causes them to investigate what happened and then they get caught. Hey, maybe it is like what we humans do when there is a fire or accident. We just have to look.

With all of that said, I'll offer a little background since you don't know Eric or myself. Eric makes the Qwikdrop snares and has a couple good videos out about mink snaring. He snares 125 to 150 mink or so every year in New Jersey. Me, I'm a nobody from Ohio that catches some mink on occasion occasionally.


Randy
Member NTA, FTA
Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: minnow] #284433
08/04/07 11:30 PM
08/04/07 11:30 PM

A
ADC OP
Unregistered
ADC OP
Unregistered
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 Originally Posted By: minnow
Adc, Great topic! I dont use any mink lure, However I use the mink I catch for bait & allways cut the glands open on them when I use them. Sometimes Just use the fresh glands in my pocket sets. They have a place on my trapline

Have you got all your traps ready for opening day?

Minnow


I haven't even gotten started getting my traps and snares ready, but as soon as it cools off I will. Hope to meet you at the ITA in Sept.
~ADC~

Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Computer Hater] #284437
08/04/07 11:33 PM
08/04/07 11:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
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Gulliver, Michigan
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Asa Lenon Offline
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I'm glad Randy that maximum mink musk usage works for you and Eric, whatever works well be sure to keep on doing.
Mink musk has a value in a mink lure or I wouldn't have it in all three of my mink lure formulas.
However, it is quite possible that so many trappers say no mink lure has ever produced for them because perhaps the lures they tried were laced to the max with mink musk in the lure makers quest to produce a strong smelling lure. Also, perhaps natural mink odors from a catch are viewed differently than prepared mink musk lures by some mink.
As I said in above postings, a well formulated lure used correctly has the possibility of adding 30% to ones total harvest. This 30% figure is estimated from my testing and experience. 70% of mink can be taken quite nicely by usage of unlured blind sets. That leaves 30% to do the testing on. Now as already stated, big buck mink don't mind any amount of musk odor for they fear nothing. More timid smaller male mink sometimes fear exagerated musk odors so a few will back off from loud musk odors. Some females are bolder than others so loud musk odors won't back off every female but there are a considerable number that will shy away. (read Newhouse's post in this thread as an example) So what we are talking about here is perhaps a total difference in harvest of possibly 10% because of too much mink musk being applied at sets. That is a hard number for one to draw affirmative opinions about without years of exensive testing, observation and experience. If one is doing well on the mink line and is not a lure maker always striving to produce a better lure there would be no reason for one to make test after test in season and out of season with mock sets. On the other hand, the addition of weasel musk to the formula always sees a quick result in increased harvesting and mink's commitment to a pocket. This incresed catch shows me that many mink of both sexes were passing sets lured with mink musk formulated lures, that it took an additional enrager to get their attention. There isn't anything scientific about any of this, just an opinion from taking a hard look at the subject for a long time. Ace

Last edited by Asa Lenon; 08/04/07 11:42 PM.
Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Asa Lenon] #284458
08/04/07 11:59 PM
08/04/07 11:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 226
SW MT
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SW MT
I'm not a mink trapper but this is a interesting thread..you brought your "A" game tonight Ace.


"Successful trapping is grounded in the application of common horse sense."
Badlands Bill Jaborski
Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: 3-N] #284462
08/05/07 12:01 AM
08/05/07 12:01 AM
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Posts: 2,662
Ely, Minnesota, coolest small ...
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Well Asa, which of your mink lures has weasel musk in it? I need to pick some up at the MTA in a week.


Ely, Minnesota, coolest small town in America, 2010.
Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Asa Lenon] #284465
08/05/07 12:04 AM
08/05/07 12:04 AM
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Ohio
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Ohio
Asa,

I agree with a lot of what has been said on this thread. The weasel musk being an enrager is one of them. The only reason I posted was because of the amount of mink that I catch in sets that have already caught mink and the fact that these sets smelled very minky because the mink let off some musk in his struggles. Remember, I'm not using this mink musk at the beginning. The first mink that gets caught is leaving it. All I'm doing is resetting the trap. And as stated earlier, I have other sets there but a lot of the mink get caught in that same trap. Don't get me wrong, I catch mink in the other sets at times but once that first mink is caught it seems that set gets a lot more attention.

I had a set last year that was in the edge of a small beaver swamp. An uprooted tree was at the edge and I was able to fashion a small pocket back under the roots. The first mink was a big old male and I caught him by the back foot. Needless to say when I stepped out of the truck, I knew I had caught a mink. He was still alive and very unhappy to see me. Over the next couple weeks I caught 3 more male mink there and two were juveniles. I caught one other male mink about 30 feet away and he was a juvenile also but he was the only mink caught in that set.

No disrespect to you nor am I trying to be argumentative. I understand your reasoning behind your lure formulas and your thoughts that too much mink musk can possibly scare some mink off. I even agree that possibly some mink may shy away occasionally. I just wanted to offer the fact that a lot of mink are caught by trappers in sets that smell of mink musk because another mink has been caught there previously. And again, I really don't use mink lure except as stated above.

You may have hit on something there when you say, "Perhaps natural mink odors from a catch are viewed differently than prepared mink musk lures by some mink." I don't know how to prove that theory but it could sure explain a lot of things.


Randy
Member NTA, FTA
Re: Any experianced minkers... lure ??? [Re: Computer Hater] #284472
08/05/07 12:22 AM
08/05/07 12:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,740
Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
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I think Randy that we can "theorize" all day long, what counts is dead mink in the back of the truck.

If you are running around with Eric Space, then you boys are flat out killing some mink.

Actually on the subject of females, when handling ranch mink the females, especially the old ones, are down right mean and nasty. I don't think they are afraid of much of anything.

It is impossible to assess these things any other way than the end result, dead mink in my opinion. Unless snow tracking, it is surely impossible to completely assess misses at a mink set. To me the only reasonable assessment could be the fact that you have several sets side by side, with varying attractors or in this case, one musked up and the others not. The you have to consider the direction the mink came from, in relationship to which set took him. Most of the mink I catch, with no snow, it is just impossible to do that as there are no or very slight tracks to work with.


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