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I was interviewed extensively for this Book. #1870809
03/04/10 01:25 PM
03/04/10 01:25 PM
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Mira Trapper Offline OP
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The author of this Book(Wesley Smith) interviewed me quite extensively for insights into what the impact of Animal Rights or the misunderstanding of animal rights is to humanity. I hope some of you buy the book a it ill give us a more valuable understanding of how to combat the illogical Philosophy of animal rights while teaching us that we can be proud of our specieism & exceptualism.

http://www.amazon.com/Rat-Pig-Dog-Boy-Mo...0606&sr=1-1

Here is a review that describes Wesley Smith's challenge to the ARA and reasonable thinking people.

St. Louis Post-Dispatch
In defense of 'speciesism'
By Colleen Carroll Campbell
03/04/2010
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/co...32?OpenDocument

Wesley J. Smith is a speciesist. And he thinks you should be, too.

An attorney and author of a new expose on the animal-rights movement,
Smith promotes what was once an uncontroversial idea: the belief that
"human beings stand at the pinnacle of the moral hierarchy of life."
He thinks humans have a duty to treat animals humanely. He also thinks
we have a right to use animals to promote human flourishing and
alleviate human suffering. In short, Smith loves animals but values
humans more.

According to animal-rights activists, that makes him guilty of
"speciesism:" a form of discrimination as arbitrary and pernicious as
racism, and one that some believe must be eradicated by any means
necessary. After all, "animals are people and people are animals," as
self-described "eco-anarcha-feminist animal" Pattrice Jones puts it.
Or, to quote People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals president
Ingrid Newkirk, "A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy. They are all
mammals."

Newkirk's non-sequitur serves as the title for Smith's meticulously
documented book, "A Rat Is a Pig Is a Dog Is a Boy: The Human Cost of
the Animal Rights Movement." His research reveals the muddled,
misanthropic thinking behind a movement that has gained mainstream
acceptance in America, even as most Americans remain ignorant about
its true goals.

Those goals include the elevation of animals to the moral and legal
status of people and the eradication of virtually all uses of animals
— for food, companionship and even medical research. If animal-rights
activists have their way, we will see the abolition of everything from
recreational fishing and visits to the zoo to the use of guide dogs
for the blind and household pets of any kind. Forget about eating meat
or sushi or strapping on leather shoes and wool sweaters. And don't
even think about donning a silk scarf or drizzling honey on your
dairy-free dessert. Animal-rights activists object to beekeeping
because it subjects hive queens to "rape racks," and PETA opposes the
use of silkworms because they are "feeling beings."

It's easy to snicker at the sort of people who berated Barack Obama
last year for smacking a fly. (PETA denounced his televised swat as an
"execution.") Yet Smith told me in a recent interview that he found
surprisingly little distance between the views of the movement's
violent radicals and those who serve as its more moderate public face.
Animal-rights terrorists — those who plant bombs in the cars and
target the children of medical researchers who experiment on animals —
often operate with the sympathy and tacit approval of more peaceable
protestors.

Even more troubling, animal-rights activists have succeeded in
confusing the public about the difference between animal rights and
animal welfare. The latter is a noble cause supported by the vast
majority of Americans who want to protect animals from cruelty, even
though they do not consider animals their moral equals — a caveat that
runs counter to animal-rights ideology. Despite this distinction,
"animal rights" has "become the catchall term for virtually any effort
to protect animals," Smith says, and the resulting confusion has
allowed the animal-rights movement to gain legitimacy it does not
deserve.

That legitimacy threatens universal human rights, which are grounded
in the principle that all humans are equal simply because we are
human. If we reject that principle and argue that our rights are based
on something other than our shared human nature — that it is a
creature's apparent rationality or self-awareness, for instance, that
entitles it to rights — we can wind up elevating the rights of chimps
and pigs above those of profoundly disabled or demented humans.
Indeed, some animal-rights advocates have done just that.

Animals do not have rights or the moral responsibilities that
accompany rights. That's why we prosecuted Michael Vick, not his pit
bulls, for dog-fighting. That's why executives at Sea World, not its
orcas, are facing public scrutiny for a whale trainer's death last
week. And that's why we ponder our moral obligations to animals — who
are, after all, the ultimate speciesists — even though animals do not
do the same for us. We do so because we are human, endowed with
exceptional dignity that deserves singular defense.

Colleen Carroll Campbell is an author, television and radio host and
St. Louis-based fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center. Her
website is www.colleen-campbell.com.


.


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Mac Leod Motto
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Mira Trapper] #1870828
03/04/10 01:36 PM
03/04/10 01:36 PM
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They need to read the Bible...
anyone who believes that animals are our equal must also be an atheist or are very uninformed.

Last edited by Idtrapper; 03/04/10 01:36 PM.
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Idtrapper] #1870840
03/04/10 01:42 PM
03/04/10 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: Idtrapper
They need to read the Bible...
anyone who believes that animals are our equal must also be an atheist or are very uninformed.


Let's see if we can't keep the Bible banging out of this one.

I think this book would be a worthwhile read! That author has probably painted a target on his back, though. He'll probably receive a lot of harassment by the AR terrorists.


It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, but only 3 for a proper trigger squeeze.
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Ole Hawkeye] #1870857
03/04/10 01:49 PM
03/04/10 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ole Hawkeye
Originally Posted By: Idtrapper
They need to read the Bible...
anyone who believes that animals are our equal must also be an atheist or are very uninformed.


Let's see if we can't keep the Bible banging out of this one.

I think this book would be a worthwhile read! That author has probably painted a target on his back, though. He'll probably receive a lot of harassment by the AR terrorists.


Or worse! Those folks can be militant!


"if someone did that to my cowboy boots id punch em right in the face." - Barry Leroy
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Ole Hawkeye] #1870861
03/04/10 01:51 PM
03/04/10 01:51 PM
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Hey I just bought an AR!! Know of any activist I could use it on?

Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Ole Hawkeye] #1870865
03/04/10 01:53 PM
03/04/10 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ole Hawkeye
Originally Posted By: Idtrapper
They need to read the Bible...
anyone who believes that animals are our equal must also be an atheist or are very uninformed.


Let's see if we can't keep the Bible banging out of this one.

I think this book would be a worthwhile read! That author has probably painted a target on his back, though. He'll probably receive a lot of harassment by the AR terrorists.

I'll post my opinion whenever I want --

Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Idtrapper] #1870868
03/04/10 01:55 PM
03/04/10 01:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
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Mira Trapper Offline OP
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Excuse me!!!! I know the Bible quite well thank you. How did you arrive at the conclusion that the author believes animals are our equal from the piece above? He is stating that we as Humans are Exceptional because of our morality and that Animal Rights Activists hate us as Speciests for believing we are exceptional. Mr . Smith feels that is the Creators rule for our exceptionalism. I happen to believe the same.


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Mac Leod Motto
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Ole Hawkeye] #1870875
03/04/10 01:57 PM
03/04/10 01:57 PM
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Mira Trapper Offline OP
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You have that right Hawkeye. He has been vilified by ARA Shrill Matthew Sully in a oped almost before the first book was released.


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Mac Leod Motto
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Mira Trapper] #1870891
03/04/10 02:04 PM
03/04/10 02:04 PM
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As soon as my dog or any other animal starts paying my mortgage,mowing the lawn ,and splitting the wood I'll consider them my equal.


I haven't had this much fun since I was knee high to a grasshopper
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: N.W.MISSOURI] #1870897
03/04/10 02:07 PM
03/04/10 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: N.W.MISSOURI
As soon as my dog or any other animal starts paying my mortgage,mowing the lawn ,and splitting the wood I'll consider them my equal.


In fact you are PRIVILEGING your animal with food , medical attention & shelter despite the dog's lack of morality that would recognize how to reciprocate your kindness in doing so.


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Mac Leod Motto
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Mira Trapper] #1870903
03/04/10 02:09 PM
03/04/10 02:09 PM
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the only problem is the people that need to read books like these are the ones who will never see it we need to get this thing on the ny bestseller so it can get some good press and be read


ANFN http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iqnMrynpq9U none are more hopelessly enslaved then those who believe they are free!
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Mira Trapper] #1870926
03/04/10 02:16 PM
03/04/10 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mira Trapper
Originally Posted By: N.W.MISSOURI
As soon as my dog or any other animal starts paying my mortgage,mowing the lawn ,and splitting the wood I'll consider them my equal.


In fact you are PRIVILEGING your animal with food , medical attention & shelter despite the dog's lack of morality that would recognize how to reciprocate your kindness in doing so.
Peta people and extreme animal rights activists are NUTS
I believe in animal rights and I don't discriminate EVERY ANIMAL IS WELCOME IN MY TRAP and every one has a right to get in my trap LOL All joking aside I don't think animals should be mistreated in any way shape or form. Now I also believe in using the renewable resource of fur that mother nature supplies to us.And yes there is a difference .


I haven't had this much fun since I was knee high to a grasshopper
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: N.W.MISSOURI] #1870934
03/04/10 02:20 PM
03/04/10 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: N.W.MISSOURI
Originally Posted By: Mira Trapper
Originally Posted By: N.W.MISSOURI
As soon as my dog or any other animal starts paying my mortgage,mowing the lawn ,and splitting the wood I'll consider them my equal.


In fact you are PRIVILEGING your animal with food , medical attention & shelter despite the dog's lack of morality that would recognize how to reciprocate your kindness in doing so.
Peta people and extreme animal rights activists are NUTS
I believe in animal rights and I don't discriminate EVERY ANIMAL IS WELCOME IN MY TRAP and every one has a right to get in my trap LOL All joking aside I don't think animals should be mistreated in any way shape or form. Now I also believe in using the renewable resource of fur that mother nature supplies to us.And yes there is a difference .




Putting your feelings into words. Correct me if I am wrong. You love animal species but can kill individuals from a species knowing that it is good for your profits while be a healthy profit to the herd or pack.


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Mac Leod Motto
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Idtrapper] #1870954
03/04/10 02:27 PM
03/04/10 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: Idtrapper
They need to read the Bible...
anyone who believes that animals are our equal must also be an atheist or are very uninformed.


Sorry I replied to you thinking you meant the Author thought we and the animals were equals. The book actually stresses how exceptional we are and why we should not be ashamed to be classed as morality driven speciest who understand morals guide rights that animals do not have..

Last edited by Mira Trapper; 03/04/10 02:27 PM.

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Mac Leod Motto
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: ] #1870980
03/04/10 02:40 PM
03/04/10 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: laurel mtman
I believe the Good Lord made a place for all his critters... right next to the mashed 'taters !

Coyote with mashed potatoes and gravey? um um um

Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Nebhunter] #1871024
03/04/10 03:02 PM
03/04/10 03:02 PM
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Use the pelt off the coyote to pay for the potatoes. Wink


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Mac Leod Motto
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: ] #1871031
03/04/10 03:06 PM
03/04/10 03:06 PM
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PETA does not believe we have the right to kill a cougar, but a cougar has the right to kill a human. Now who's life do they value the most?


It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, but only 3 for a proper trigger squeeze.
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: ] #1871138
03/04/10 03:45 PM
03/04/10 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted By: laurel mtman
Seriously though, I heard the fella who wrote this book give an interview on a talk radio show the other day. Sounds like a great read. Lots of history on the AR movement.



Not only History but a knowledge based argument against allowing the ARA to speak against human exceptualism and why we can embrace the fact that all humans must be speciest in order to survive. I really do hope this book takes off. It could be a great resource for our younger students to challenge the classroom antics of teachers or students who promote veganism or animal rights. One of the reasons I was interviewed was over the management of wildlife through trapping and hunting. Another reason is because I have been one of the first to tackle and prove the specieism of vegan AR proponents. They have claimed higher moral ground & profound hatred for capitalist driven meat industry as if the specieism of killing animals for food was evil. When I point out to those Vegang/ARA debators that they are even more speciest as their food is killed by heavy machinery, poisoned by a 40 billion dollar spray industry, poisoned or shot as pests to protect crops or as road kill in fields and railroads they claim up tighter then oysters on a dry beach. The reason being they can see that both meat and crop production are capitalist and speciest designed to make us thrive. It becomes doubly embarrassing when I point out that only the meat industry uses animal welfare laws as a foundation in their food production even as the animals killed in crop production or protection die with no such animal welfare laws. The truth is those Vegan/ARA have no desire to recognize their own speciesm and the fact that humans are exceptional because we are moral agents. However only meat eaters are concerned that their animals die quickly and humanely. Rats & pigeons can take 50 hours to bleed out from warfarin poisoning but no ARA/vegan will weep over those deaths because it impacts their own speciesm. t


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Mac Leod Motto
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Mira Trapper] #1871186
03/04/10 04:06 PM
03/04/10 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mira Trapper
They have claimed higher moral ground & profound hatred for capitalist driven meat industry as if the specieism of killing animals for food was evil.


They hate it when communists do it too. They attack China pretty often on youtube, trying to make people boycott Armani for using rabbit fur trim. They show rabbits hung up to bled that are still twitching from the stun gun, and say they are "skinned alive in China."

Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Tsarevna] #1871257
03/04/10 04:34 PM
03/04/10 04:34 PM
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..dang Tassy, what channel are you watching?

Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Mira Trapper] #1871480
03/04/10 06:46 PM
03/04/10 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mira Trapper
Originally Posted By: N.W.MISSOURI
Originally Posted By: Mira Trapper
Originally Posted By: N.W.MISSOURI
As soon as my dog or any other animal starts paying my mortgage,mowing the lawn ,and splitting the wood I'll consider them my equal.


In fact you are PRIVILEGING your animal with food , medical attention & shelter despite the dog's lack of morality that would recognize how to reciprocate your kindness in doing so.
Peta people and extreme animal rights activists are NUTS
I believe in animal rights and I don't discriminate EVERY ANIMAL IS WELCOME IN MY TRAP and every one has a right to get in my trap LOL All joking aside I don't think animals should be mistreated in any way shape or form. Now I also believe in using the renewable resource of fur that mother nature supplies to us.And yes there is a difference .




Putting your feelings into words. Correct me if I am wrong. You love animal species but can kill individuals from a species knowing that it is good for your profits while be a healthy profit to the herd or pack.
While I trap I don't make a huge profit or much of a profit at all. I would say the core group of animals that I trap from benefit and profit from my trapping more then I do.Any sane person knows that in order for our natural fur bearing animals to be able to reproduce in a healthy state and the over all well being for all of our natural resources they need to be managed.Any person wanting to argue that point is clearly insane and there fore not worth arguing with


I haven't had this much fun since I was knee high to a grasshopper
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: LT GREY] #1871515
03/04/10 07:02 PM
03/04/10 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: LT GREY
..dang Tassy, what channel are you watching?


I tried to look up "how to butcher a rabbit" on youtube.

Very interesting results I must say.

I like to eat rabbit but I don't want to shoot them and put lead in my food. So I tried doing various searches for rabbit slaughter. There are a ton of anti-videos of under-cover slaughter house footage stuff that is on there. Sometimes the titles just seem informational but you click on them and get the sad violin music playing. sick

Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: N.W.MISSOURI] #1871525
03/04/10 07:07 PM
03/04/10 07:07 PM
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Mira Trapper Offline OP
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Quote:
As soon as my dog or any other animal starts paying my mortgage,mowing the lawn ,and splitting the wood I'll consider them my equal.


Quote:
In fact you are PRIVILEGING your animal with food , medical attention & shelter despite the dog's lack of morality that would recognize how to reciprocate your kindness in doing so.



Quote:
Peta people and extreme animal rights activists are NUTS
I believe in animal rights and I don't discriminate EVERY ANIMAL IS WELCOME IN MY TRAP and every one has a right to get in my trap LOL All joking aside I don't think animals should be mistreated in any way shape or form. Now I also believe in using the renewable resource of fur that mother nature supplies to us.And yes there is a difference .




Quote:
Putting your feelings into words. Correct me if I am wrong. You love animal species but can kill individuals from a species knowing that it is good for your profits while be a healthy profit to the herd or pack.




Quote:
While I trap I don't make a huge profit or much of a profit at all. I would say the core group of animals that I trap from benefit and profit from my trapping more then I do.Any sane person knows that in order for our natural fur bearing animals to be able to reproduce in a healthy state and the over all well being for all of our natural resources they need to be managed.Any person wanting to argue that point is clearly insane and there fore not worth arguing with



It is always better to correct false impressions then to write someone off as to stupid to give them an opportunity to see things from a different perspective. I have had many people thank me for pointing out that a hunter trapper can love the species more then any animal within a species. Very few trapper hunters feel any animal should face extinction because of us. Once the genera;l public understand we feel that way, it is easier to convince them that we put the species health above the death of any individual animal in that species. .


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Mac Leod Motto
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Tsarevna] #1871535
03/04/10 07:10 PM
03/04/10 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: Tsarevna
Originally Posted By: LT GREY
..dang Tassy, what channel are you watching?


I tried to look up "how to butcher a rabbit" on youtube.

Very interesting results I must say.

I like to eat rabbit but I don't want to shoot them and put lead in my food. So I tried doing various searches for rabbit slaughter. There are a ton of anti-videos of under-cover slaughter house footage stuff that is on there. Sometimes the titles just seem informational but you click on them and get the sad violin music playing. sick



I trained myself to be an excellent shot with a 22 caliber rifle. Bullet through the head pretty much eliminates lead in my rabbits as I don't cook the heads. Snaring rabbits also works but I prefer shot rabbits.

Last edited by Mira Trapper; 03/04/10 07:11 PM.

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Mac Leod Motto
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Mira Trapper] #1871580
03/04/10 07:36 PM
03/04/10 07:36 PM
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Tsarevna i tried sending you a pm you are over your limit if you have any more questions on butchering rabbits send me a pm I can tell you how I do it I raise rabbits


I haven't had this much fun since I was knee high to a grasshopper
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: N.W.MISSOURI] #1872334
03/04/10 11:40 PM
03/04/10 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: N.W.MISSOURI
Tsarevna i tried sending you a pm you are over your limit if you have any more questions on butchering rabbits send me a pm I can tell you how I do it I raise rabbits



Had rabbit for supper yesterday. Good stuff. Hope readers of this thread reflect upon buying the book as it i linked on the opening thread.


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Mac Leod Motto
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Mira Trapper] #1872361
03/04/10 11:46 PM
03/04/10 11:46 PM
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When I was a kid we had chicken every Sunday in the summer and in the winter we had cottontail every Sunday. Behind our house was a rimrock, grandpa and I would go rabbit hunting every Saturday, no matter what.

No beagles, no shotguns. A couple of singleshot .22s got us enough rabbit for Sunday dinner.

I remember the first time I suggested using a shotgun to shoot cottontails. Let's just say I never mentioned it again.


It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, but only 3 for a proper trigger squeeze.
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Ole Hawkeye] #1872366
03/04/10 11:47 PM
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And I would rather skin a cottontail than pluck a chicken!


It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, but only 3 for a proper trigger squeeze.
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Ole Hawkeye] #1872635
03/05/10 02:24 AM
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All controversy aside Mira, I'm glad you were able to help this author with his research and I hope the book is a success. smile

Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: ] #1872720
03/05/10 05:04 AM
03/05/10 05:04 AM
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Sounds like a great book. I don't believe it will do anything to change the minds of A.R. people, especially the radicals, but what it does offer is ammo for some of us less articulate to make the right and good argument to the vast majority that are on the fence and aren't very educated to organizations like p.e.t.a. or alf.


"My biggest worry is that my wife (when I'm dead) will sell my traps for what I said I paid for them."
Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: shorthair] #1874955
03/06/10 09:37 AM
03/06/10 09:37 AM
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Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia
Mira Trapper Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: shorthair
Sounds like a great book. I don't believe it will do anything to change the minds of A.R. people, especially the radicals, but what it does offer is ammo for some of us less articulate to make the right and good argument to the vast majority that are on the fence and aren't very educated to organizations like p.e.t.a. or alf.


Which is his purpose in writing the book and taking on the serious etical issues he has with modern society. I hope that he gets success from the book and that it becomes a read that students would take on so they can get a better grasp of just how important it is to be thankful we are an exceptional species on this planet. There is no need to be a hand wringing apologist because we take lives to support our own life. it happens to be how survival is supposed to work.

Last edited by Mira Trapper; 03/06/10 09:46 AM.

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Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Ole Hawkeye] #1874965
03/06/10 09:45 AM
03/06/10 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted By: Ole Hawkeye
When I was a kid we had chicken every Sunday in the summer and in the winter we had cottontail every Sunday. Behind our house was a rimrock, grandpa and I would go rabbit hunting every Saturday, no matter what.

No beagles, no shotguns. A couple of singleshot .22s got us enough rabbit for Sunday dinner.

I remember the first time I suggested using a shotgun to shoot cottontails. Let's just say I never mentioned it again.



My dad and your grandpa must have had the same granpappy. My Grand dad was dead before I was born but I can assure you my dad took his lessons about wasting meat seriously. Shot gun rabbit kill bad! 22 head shot excellent. I did have some fun with him opne time coming back from duck hunting though. Had 6 ruffled grouse in a big old yellow birch tree. I backed up adjusting my angles and when I pulled the trigger all six fell to the ground. Dad was pretty proud of my using the single shot from the old twelve guage so effectively. I could pull that trick with ease but never was a good pool shark which is a noted game of angles. Go Figure!!


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Re: I was interviewed extensively for this Book. [Re: Mira Trapper] #1893780
03/14/10 09:05 PM
03/14/10 09:05 PM
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Folks might be interested in this followup. He has a chapter dedicated to Wildlife Management & the fur industry with many references throughout the book as to why Animal Rights is wrong as they try to destroy Animal use .

Bio-ethicist, author Wesley J. Smith interview (Front Page Mag.)‏


Front Page Magazine
Animal Wrongs
Posted By Jacob Laksin
March 11, 2010
http://frontpagemag.com/2010/03/11/animal-wrongs-2/

[Editor's note: Obama administration “regulatory czar” Cass Sunstein
[1] hit turbulence [2] during his 2009 confirmation hearings when
critics charged that he was a “radical animal rights activist [3].” It
emerged that Sunstein had supported banning hunting; that he had urged
eliminating meat eating; and that he had even championed giving
animals the right to sue [3]. Sunstein’s views were decidedly out of
the political mainstream, but they were typical of a movement that
author Wesley Smith, a senior fellow in human rights and bioethics at
the Discovery Institute, analyzes in his new book, A Rat Is a Pig Is a
Dog Is a Boy: The Human Cost of the Animal Rights Movement [4]. Smith
joined Front Page to discuss what animal right activists believe, why
their agenda is anti-human, and why vegetarians are no more moral than
meat eaters.]

FPM: Most people would say they support animal welfare and that they
are in favor of the ethical treatment of animals. But you argue in
your book that the animal rights movement has a broader – and more
insidious – agenda. What do animal rights activists believe?

Smith: The problem is that the media uses the terms animal welfare and
animal rights as if they were interchangeable. They are not. Animal
rightists believe that humans have no more value than animals – they
consider that “speciest [5]” – and that humans do not have the right
to profit even from the proper and humane use of animals. Animal
rightists draw a moral equivalency between humans and animals. There
is quote from PETA’s president and co-founder, Ingrid Newkirk, that
captures it well. She said:

“Animal liberationists do not separate out the human animal, so
there is no rational basis for saying that a human being has special
rights. A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy. They are all mammals.”

That is why some animal rightists are opposed to the domestication of
any animals at all. They believe with a furor – many of their beliefs
are entirely emotional – that what gives something value is the
ability to feel to pain and to suffer, and so they believe, for
instance, that cattle ranching is as odious as slavery and that
research on lab rats is an equivalent evil to Joseph Mengele’s
experiments during the Holocaust.

FPM: You argue that animal rightists are essentially against Western
civilization. Can you explain your reasoning?

Smith: The West is founded on a Judeo-Christian moral ethic, which
holds that human welfare is central and that humans and animals are
not of equal worth. The animal rights movement tears at the heart of
that. It’s a movement that is not based on rationality; there is a
very strong anti-human element. For animal rightists, being human is
not special. They don’t believe in human exceptionalism. They see us
as an evil species, as killers and the causers of suffering. The
misanthrope is so thick you could cut it with a knife.

This actually quite odd. We are the only species that tries to
mitigate the suffering of other animals. No other animals, not even
dogs, have emotional empathy to the same extent that we do. A hyena in
the wild is not going to have empathy if it encounters an injured
animal. It’s going to eat it. Only the human species is actively
trying to mitigate animal suffering.

One of the more dismaying things about the animal rights movement is
that Western universities have provided a forum to its more extreme
voices. In 2007, Hampshire College in Massachusetts permitted animal
rights terrorists [6] to speak. Their slogan was “Smash the State,
Crush the Cage!” Universities allow these radicals to appear on
campus, and yet they prevent [7] people like David Horowitz from
speaking.

FPM: In your book, you defend using animals to promote human welfare,
for instance through animal testing. Can you give us an overview of
that argument?

Smith: Human beings derive incredible benefits from proper and humane
testing on animals. One critic of my book, Matthew Scully, has claimed
[8] that I support experiments in which chimpanzees have their arms
broken, but that is erroneous: There is no such case discussed in my
book. On the other hand, medical research would grind to a halt
without animal testing. There would be no way to test new drugs.
Ultimately there is no way to go around animal testing – unless you
were willing to use human test subjects. Animal testing makes
life-saving research possible.

Let me give you an example. There is a class of anti-AIDS drugs called
protein inhibitors that are used to stifle infections. In the first
iteration of these drugs, the researchers tested them on animals, and
they ended up destroying their livers. So the researchers went back to
the drawing board and came up with a new, safer, and more effective
drug that has yielded great benefit to humans. But imagine if the
animal rightists had their way and the drug could not have been tested
on animals. Let’s say that they had tested it on humans, and found
that the drug causes liver damage. At that point, there would be a
huge scandal, lawsuits, and the research would be suspended. That
means that thousands of people would have been dead because there
would not have been no new and improved drug for them to take.

And animal rightists would go further than abolishing animal testing.
Gary Francione of Rutgers University has called for human society to
get rid of all domesticated animals within a single generation.
Francione has said that dogs are “refugees in a world in which they
don’t belong.” Think of a society that has no meat, no seeing-eye
dogs, no pets of any kind. It’s impossible to quantify the
consequences to our society if all animals were suddenly off limits.
But that’s the goal of the animal rights movement.

FPM: I was intrigued by your observation that the recent tragedy [9]
in Orlando, Fla., where a killer whale drowned his female trainer,
serves as a refutation of the animal rights movement, at least in so
far as it illustrates the moral distinctions between humans and
animals that they deny. How exactly did that illustrate the point?

Smith: This was a terrible tragedy, but what the whale did was not
wrong in the moral sense: no one called for the whale to be arrested,
tried, or punished. It was accepted that a killer whale was just being
a killer whale. If I had done that to a woman, that would be murder.
But animals don’t have moral agency and so we don’t call for them to
be held to account in a way that humans can – and should – be held to
account. This is a crucial distinction between humans and animals. We
have moral capacities, the ability to reason, etc., that make us
unique. That is part of human exceptionalism.

FPM: Although your book is primarily critical of the animal rights
movement for it’s too-extreme definition of animal welfare, you’ve
also been critical of those on the other extreme who suggest too
narrow a view of animal rights. As you’ve noted, some have defended
using animals as property; one writer, though not approving of his
treatment of dogs, nonetheless defended Michael Vick’s right to treat
them as his property. The majority of us would instinctively recoil at
that argument, but can you explain why it is wrong?

Smith: The philosopher Descartes said that animals were automatons,
and so it didn’t matter what we did to them. But today we understand
that animals have feelings: they feel pain and they can experience
fear. They are not inanimate objects, like a book that you can tear,
trample on and burn. And they are not plants, which don’t experience
emotional pain. Because we understand that animals feel pain, we are
morally bound by a duty to animals to treat them properly, and not to
cause them gratuitous suffering. This is our moral duty as humans.
When Vick abused and tortured his dogs, he denigrated his own
humanity.

It is because we have moral agency that we should seek ways to reduce
the suffering of animals, whether it is cattle or pigs raised on
factory farms. In my book, I have a chapter on Dr. Temple Grandin.
Grandin is autistic, so she sees the world visually, like an animal
would, as opposed to intellectually. And because she understood how
animals see the world, she was able to design improved methods for
slaughter that reduce animal suffering. The greater our ability to
reduce animal suffering the more we should pursue it.

FPM: Are there any particular practices or treatments of animals in
use today that you find especially objectionable?

Smith: Bull fights. They are remnants of a Roman, coliseum-like
culture. It’s deeply distressing for the animal. You have a bull being
baited, tortured, taunted and stabbed, until it tires long enough for
the matador to run a sword through its heart. Someone may then eat the
meat. There should always be some consideration of the benefit to
humanity versus the suffering caused to the animal. I think bull
fights would fail that test.

I would also oppose things like internet hunting, where you have
people killing animals with remote controlled guns using webcams. This
is killing for the sake of killing. But I am not opposed to hunting
for food, and not even necessarily to hunting for sport. In Africa,
sport hunting supports their ability to cull animal herds and maintain
wildlife parks.

FPM: Finally, I would be curious to get your view on the vegetarian
question. Are vegetarians inherently more moral than meat eaters?

Smith: Not at all. Humans are biologically omnivorous, and meat is a
natural, nutritious food source. I respect those who don’t eat meat
for ethical reasons, who refuse to eat anything with a face. But I see
it as akin to monasticism. A monk is not more moral than a married
couple that has normal sexual relations. The fact that some people
choose not to eat meat doesn’t make those who do any less moral.

FPM: Wesley Smith, thanks very much for your time.


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