The USDA guys here use thermal gear to shoot coyotes as well. They are using generation 4 stuff right now.

twodollar, you still haven't aswered my question.

Now may I ask another question?
Who pays for your traps, truck, equipment, gas, insurance (oh that's right you don't have to have liability insurance), etc..
Now I know you can't discuss fees and neither would I but can you give a general breakdown of your profit/loss statement?
And another question.
Are you by any chance a member of the Service Employees International Union?

No pissing contest here. Just want some questions answered. I admire you for sticking up for your employer, I would expect no less. But just who is your employer and where does he get his money?

Short and simple it is my belief and from what I hear the belief of others that your employer is on the one hand stealing from us to pay you to steal from us on the other hand.

Fact maybe but when they are getting a subsidized price why would they. Clear all this up and give a price list and let's see just how this competitive bid process works.

Why couldnt all the ADC guys in a region band together and get liability insurence as a pool? All under one umbrella. Seems like it would reduce the overall costs to everyone.

Anyone that believes that WS is supported solely through cooperative agreements is not knowledgeable of its funding sources. WS receives direct Federal funds (tax money) and Cooperative funding. Cooperative funding comes from other Federal agencies (tax money); State, County and local governments (tax money); and then from non-governmental agencies companies, and individuals. Here is a link to WILDLIFE SERVICES FISCAL YEAR 2008 FEDERAL AND COOPERATIVE FUNDING BY RESOURCE- http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/prog_data/2008_pdr/PDR_A/PDR_A_FY2008.pdf

twodollar, if you have any interesting jobs or stories, I for one would like to hear them. All I know about the USDA is what I read on this site. I kinda like hearing your side too.

So Bob is getting a rebate because you can't give a fair quote.

You don't actually try to solve the problem.

No profit margin says it all.

Why would Bob want to when he's get a rebate at below cost.

And a contract for below fair market value and we're supposed to understand that you aren't in anyway stepping on our toes.

Maybe a private company can help with this?

http://blog.syracuse.com/outdoors/2010/01/federal_funding_for_cormorant.html

Those birds are terrible here.

ha!

Interesting story about a beaver problem..... I have read the article 2 or 3 times, and every time I read it I still see the $10,000 fee paid to USDA. Not quite sure how I am supposed to interpret that part... sure looks like somebody is paying TWICE for this service, and every one of us has "pitched in" for the first time already.

http://times-georgian.com/view/full_story/3756817/article-Beavers-remain-an-issue-in-Temple

Here in VA USDA can use M-44's. Not so sure that I want to use them but they have gotten bids for county work because they could use them and any non-federal employ cannot. Now VA is a right to work state so I cannot figure whats in the USDA employees pants that makes them so much more intelligent that they can test and be liscensed to use M-44 than you or me. VA could not deny you work for being or not being a union member yet you can be declined because you are not a federal employ... tax dollars at work. Then USDA does all kinds of public speaking to try to get our meager bounties abolished. The cost of coyote killed on bounty is about 600 dollars less than WS according to the latest info posted. Which is another gripe.... they don't keep pertinent public information posted as they should. I don't think they want us to know what they catch and where and how much it cost the system.

The USDA-APHIS-WS division is mandated by law - The Animal Damage Control Act of 1928 or 1931. It has been amended several times since its enactment - expanding its realm of work and mission.

Many of you seem to want to complain about the WS division but how many of you are willing to write your federal representative and senator to complain and ask for their funding to be eliminated? How many of you are complaining to your federal representatives and senators and informing them of how this agency and their policies are financially hurting your business due to unfair competition. The bottom line is this - the WS portion of the USDA should be privatized! All levels of government agencies, be they city, parish, township, county, state or federal, with a wildlife damage problem should be contracting with private businesses to have the wildlife problem resolved. As for disease management measures such as rabies vaccines (bait drops) there is no reason why the USDA-WS can't contract with private businesses for assistance or use the services of volunteer biology students from a local college. If the USDA-APHIS-WS trappers are as good as they say they are then they shouldn't have a problem making it as private businesses.

Now it is time to crap or get off the pot!!

I get your Point K9man. I have been hesitant to make too many complaints as the Furbearer biologist and the WS show up side by side. Because the FB is in control of Nuisance Wildlife Operator Permits, and VaDGIF being the good ole boy network it is I even hesitate this post. We must constantly think what is really in our best interest. It would be sad to lose a permit and watch all the action from the sidelines. Right is right and wrong is wrong but most of us could not afford to prove just how right we might be.

I agree 100% with your take on this issue. I have written a 2-page letter to Phil Hare, who is one of the co-sponsors of #H.R.3710, the Refuge From Cruel Trapping Act which is aimed at prohibiting body-grip traps from being used as a management tool in the refuge systems. Not exactly the same topic as USDA, but still an issue that is all PC and no science. Hare is my district 17 congressman here in Illinois, and it is a joke that he sends out his nice color brochures claiming he understands middle America and is on the side of rural residents and farmers. What a joke.... he is just another puppet in the "left" party.... supports cap & trade, stimulus spending, card check, and every other anti-business policy the current anti-capitalists are pushing. I have been contacted in the past by FWS to remove beavers and muskrats from areas in the refuge system near Grafton. They were causing severe erosion problems to the levees and flood control structures. If this bill passes, it will no longer allow any control for damage prevention on the refuge system areas. Needless to say, it's been 2 months and I have never received a response.... and the letter was well written, no "anger" in the content, and contained scientific data and history of the benefits of managing certain species in the system. Hoping the mid-terms in November send him packing.... there is a great alternative from "the other side".....

EDIT: Sorry about the "no politics" violation.... but there are probably a ton of Illinois fur trappers that have no idea this guy is anti-trapping to the max. If only a few are made aware of the fact, this post will be worthwhile.

TimmyTraps4Fur, are you so intimidated by your own government that you will let them put you out of business because you are afraid they will pull you permit if you speak out in opposition to a federal agency using your tax dollars to compete against you, which put you at a distinct disadvantage?

That is the problem with the U.S. today - too many people are afraid to stand up for what is right. WS is just another public entitlement program that should be done away with. For the record, wildlife management is a State's Rights Issue. States are supposed to be managing their own wildlife within their respective borders. But many States are abdicating that right to the Federal government. So you see, the Federal WS program is partly paid for through your federal tax dollars, and your license fees that you pay to your State, not to mention other sources that have already been covered.

Now there were numerous posters on this thread before I piped up and almost all of them were complaining about the USDA-APHIS-WS program. I would like to see a show of hands so to speak and see who is going to swear that they are going to write their federal representative and senator tomorrow and call for an end to funding the WS program. You can either stand up now or start waving good-bye to your business because it will be gone shortly. I was one of the guys who used to think the USDA-APHIS-WS program wasn't a threat to me, not any more. Our program here in MI has went from one secretary and a State Director to about 15-20 people. We used to have one office, now we have two that I know of.

Here is another interesting subject. The USDA-APHIS-WS prgram used to "want" an employee to have a degree in one of the wildlife management areas, mainly wildlife biology. All of a sudden in the past couple of years they are hiring more and more "Wildlife Biologist" and their job description is the same as what used to be posted for their "trappers". I have a feeling that in the future cash strapped states won't need their own biologist, the USDA-APHIS-WS division will provide their own.

So, who is going to crap or get off the pot?

I guess nobody on here really has a problem with the USDA-APHIS-WS division after all. Nobody wants to stand and be counted. Man am I ever glad my forefathers had the guts to stand and be counted at the risk of losing everything they owned, and their lives to boot, when they got sick of the King stealing their livlihoods via taxation.

So does this mean there won't be anymore whining about how evil the USDA-APHIS-WS division is?

Patrick, some of us have never encountered the King's men and we don't want them to find us, so we keep a low profile.

Friar Tuck

You personally might not have met the Kings men yet, but the State of WI has. The USDA-APHIS-WS division slaughtered your beaver populations on trout streams a decade or so ago. There was plenty of complaining from the WI trappers because the beaver were being killed all the way up to opening day of beaver season. Then they also did a number on your black bears for a bit. It was said at one time that they were killing more black bears per year than the legal harvest was. There was alot of complaining about that one too.

You can keep a low profile all you want, but sooner or later they will put you out of business or hurt your business so much that you will seriously question whether it is worth it or not to stay in business. I know lots of ADC businesses in the South and Northeast that never had a problem with the USDA-APHIS-WS division. They used to even get referals from them. Not anymore. Once the WS programs started to grow all of the referals dried up and then the WS people started taking business away from the private sector. If you don't believe me just go to their website and obtain a copy of their State by State breakdown of their activities and plans for the future in your State.