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#159579 - 03/30/07 04:50 PM Re: Lure burn out......... [Re: Gary]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 5946
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
Gary writes...
im sorry but id love to see a specific yote work a set over and over again using the same smell (LURE) .

Sorry Gary, i'm with Tim all the way on this one! I've had coyotes do just that over and over again, too many times to even estimate a count over 50+ years of coyote harvesting. Ace

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#159587 - 03/30/07 04:54 PM Re: Lure burn out......... [Re: Asa Lenon]
Gary Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 12915
Loc: Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
asa .... not to say ya wrong ... but could ya please explain ? and how did ya know these yotes were the same yotes working the same set with same lure over and over again ?
_________________________
Possums and fanged beaver Skeer Me frown

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#159722 - 03/30/07 06:09 PM Re: Lure burn out......... [Re: 45/70]
Dave Plueger Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 2550
Loc: Iowa (where the tall corn grow...
Good post Palerider. That is exactly why I formulated 5 different coon lures, each one triggers a different response. When gangsetting a stretch of river I like to alternate lures at each set. Very seldom will a coon pass up every one. The exeption being breeding season when the dominant boars are out looking for love but even than my lure "River Bandit" will stop 90% of them. Having taken lure instructions from one of the master lure makers of our time I know what it takes to produce top shelf stuff as does ASA. With that being said I do not believe lure burnout to be a concern when using multiple lures produced by reputable lure makers.

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#175194 - 04/11/07 09:02 PM Re: Lure burn out......... [Re: Dave Plueger]
Billfrank Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 1750
Loc: TEXAS
Good Archives material....TTT
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#175208 - 04/11/07 09:11 PM Re: Lure burn out......... [Re: Billfrank]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 5946
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
Gary asked...asa .... not to say ya wrong ... but could ya please explain ? and how did ya know these yotes were the same yotes working the same set with same lure over and over again ?

Every year I always make dirthole sets out around the perimeter of my deer blind so I can watch and see how coyotes work sets when their is no trap to stop them. I have literally watched the same coyote, identified by unique markings, work the same set with the same lure every day for 15 straight days and sometimes several times in the same day.
Also, my trapping area is miles of sand and snow where tracks can be easily seen and i've seen the same toeless or peg legged coyotes dig at the same sets with same lure day after day. I have also caught many coyotes after a few days of messing with sets that had missing toes so there is no doubt in my mind it was the same coyote coming back every day. Ace


Edited by Asa Lenon (04/11/07 09:13 PM)

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#175268 - 04/11/07 09:59 PM Re: Lure burn out......... [Re: Asa Lenon]
Bob Jameson Offline


Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 2329
Loc: SW Pa
I must say I agree to a large degree with Tim on his post.There are many variables that can and do affect a presumed lure burn out effect. A good lure is just that and will most likely work for any seasoned trapper that has animals to catch year in and out.

Change ups are always a plus with respects to lures and baits alike.As are versatile sets. Those beyond the basics.

Tim brings up a variety of good plausable reasons why one would assume his lure has run its course with your trapline canines.

What needs to be understood is the learning curve that an animal particularly a canine can attain to a degree. With that said,most can be caught one way or another.

Once an animal has survived a skirmish or two with a particular trap setup presentation with an odd but attractive odor he will retain some of this learned conditioning response. But he will still find interest at some point again in a similiar or the same odor again.

Presentation of a particular set construction I believe is much more important a reason of refusal or disinterest in a lure then the lure itself. Man is his own worst enemy at times. We create many of our own problems and then want to blame the problem on something else.

Trapping pressure can cause set rejection with some canines at times.Or other sportsman that are nite hunting in an area that you are trapping. Or you are unaware of callers and coon hunters etc. in those other areas you are unaware of can cause animals to flat out avoid that area for some time due to the harassment or they just might want to avoid that kind of invasion into their normal feeding areas at nite which happen to be your favorite canine spots in years past.


You build a different set at a different location using that same lure in a completely unassociated type of display you may get him right away, the next time through or at another set a mile or so away.


It seems that there are many reasons, or logical assessments that we would assume that the facts point to lure burn out.

I think it is better rationalized that we or actions of others play a greater role in determining whether a lure loses it attractiveness or not.

I, would go as far to say I believe that in some few cases a canine may have total avoidance of any formulated lure. One that just doesnt and wont find interest in a multi ingredient attraction due to its own personal experience and/or its survival extincts. Or whatever factor that makes these animals act as they do.

In these remote cases it has been my experience that natural or small trace odor products will most likely enable one to also catch these type of animals as well if one has a mind to.
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www.wcsbatcontrol.com

Wildlife Pest Control Services

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#178829 - 04/14/07 05:01 PM Re: Lure burn out......... [Re: Bob Jameson]
Billfrank Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 1750
Loc: TEXAS
TTT
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#178853 - 04/14/07 05:19 PM Re: Lure burn out......... [Re: Billfrank]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 5946
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
Good information Bob J! When I get the occasional set avoider I simply go to plain urine or something like my Nature's Call line of lures which are all natural in formulation and use them at scent post or blind scent type sets. For a canine to avoid such lures they would have to resist their very territorial nature. I assume Bob that you are referring to something like this when you say... "In these remote cases it has been my experience that natural or small trace odor products will most likely enable one to also catch these type of animals as well if one has a mind to"
Ace

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#179196 - 04/14/07 09:44 PM Re: Lure burn out......... [Re: Asa Lenon]
Bob Jameson Offline


Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 2329
Loc: SW Pa
Yes Asa, I was referring to that exact kind of product. You know the drill Asa that is for sure.

It is certainly an honor to have your experience and abilities to resource when the need arises.My hat is off to you.
_________________________
www.jamesonsultrablend.com
www.wcsbatcontrol.com

Wildlife Pest Control Services

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#179214 - 04/14/07 10:01 PM Re: Lure burn out......... [Re: Bob Jameson]
Scott Phillips Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 1277
Loc: Utah
I hope You younger or less experienced trappers know that You are getting thousands of dollars worth of education here... not to mention all the miles driven, all the empty traps, all the hours spent laying awake in bed trying to figure these things out, and You guys don't get any of the headaches!!!!

Scott
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see Us at www.northwestpredatorandwildlifecontrol.com

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#179316 - 04/15/07 04:09 AM Re: Lure burn out......... [Re: Scott Phillips]
Gary Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 12915
Loc: Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
asa .... the thing is ... ya just admitted they are avoid'n a ceratain lure .... that was the point of this post ... was askin if it happened .... i dont know ya ... and dont doubt that ya have sumthin to throw at the critter thats spooked ... but anyone that says it doesnt happen is so full of chit their eyes re brown .... im sure y have caught more critters in a week than i have in my lifetime .... just BS when it comes to that
_________________________
Possums and fanged beaver Skeer Me frown

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#179317 - 04/15/07 04:38 AM Re: Lure burn out......... [Re: Gary]
Gary Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 12915
Loc: Indiana, 15 1/4yrs old
another thing is ... if yall are such wolfers .... why did ya miss em so bad ..... like 2 times ??? and KNOW it happened ..... OMG
_________________________
Possums and fanged beaver Skeer Me frown

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#179340 - 04/15/07 07:10 AM Re: Lure burn out......... [Re: Gary]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 5946
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
Gary, Gary, settle down! A true avoider sometimes avoids sets with no lure at all! I've had peg legged coyotes that wouldn't walk on a trail because they had been caught in an unlured trail set or become so wary of human scent that they would go out around any place in a trail where one stopped long enough to slip in an unlured set. Of course there are exceptions to every rule and i've just described one of those exceptions as an example. These rare exceptions have little in common with the idea of "lure burnout." Probably a vast majority of the fox and coyotes that are harvested each season were Spring pups and yearlings that never seen any sets or smelled any lures. Once they are wised up for some reason then they become set diggers or avoiders, not a specific lure avoider. As was said above by myself and Bob J, one can overcome these exceptions by making natural sets with natural lures or plain urines. Even if the most wary and set/lure experienced coyote was suspicious of natural sets and scents, he would have to resist his very nature to never again commit to them. Ace

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#179362 - 04/15/07 07:48 AM Re: Lure burn out......... [Re: 45/70]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3740
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
Anyone who has ever tracked a coyote veyr far in the snow, knows that they will veer over to check out a dark colored object in the field. Black blocks add a better visual than say, a rock. Any rock will work, a dark rock is better.

I think when trying to assess why a coyote has walked by your set there are a ton of variables to consider, with lure burn out being very low on the list. I'm not saying I catch them all, but if he worked the set he should be dead, not walking away habituated to your lures.

Asa and others have nailed it, when pulling your sets remove the object that your lure was on if you can. Some of these lures last a long time, and that is a real problem. I have a place on a coon stream where a large rock blocks off part of the stream. I have for years used it as a place to squirt my fish oil, and set a trap in front of. So much so, that there is a permanent oil spot on the side of that rock, and even in the summer time it puts off a fishy smell. Coons have stopped investigating it. They have gone over there and satisfied thier curiousity, and gotten no meal. This set started getting unproductive, I realized the coon were still there, and not getting caught, so I changed the smell that I was using. Boom, started catching coons.

I think a guy using a smear set, say on the side of a stump or rock, for coyotes, can run into the same problem. He needs to mix up his smells year to year as there is no way he can remove a lure stick, etc. On TBone sets, I follow OG's advice to the max, and remove the bone when I am done with the set.

As far as walkbys go though, many other things factor in. Coyote's mindset/food needs, sloppy set, just not interested, and on and on and on. If that coyote coming by your set is intent on a rabbit that he smells or sees, he is gonna walk by. If he just heard another coyote over the hill and is focused on that, he is gonna walk by.

Asa nailed it too, in that they cannot ignore smells of thier own kind. That is just in thier nature, and they should not become habituated to such smells.

I have always thought I could use habituation to my advantage, but have so far not become convinced that it is worth the effort. For quite a while, I would carry some gland lure with me while checking out new ground. In some locations, you see a spot that just screams out for a flat set. Those natural backings that you know are the top spot for a set. I would smear some gland lure on such places no matter what time of the year I was there. My thought being, to make this a spot that get's urinated and crapped on every time any coyote walks by. Next time he is by, he will investigate it again, to see who else has marked it, and he will mark it again himself.

I am not convinced that this isn't a good thing to do, just have stopped carrying around the gland lure with me, because I am not sure the advantages outweigh the effort to get it done.
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#179376 - 04/15/07 08:13 AM Re: Lure burn out......... [Re: k9.]
k9. Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 3740
Loc: Brooklyn, Iowa 45 years old st...
OK I am an idiot. I was only on the first page and my reponse was to that, once I posted I realized theres a whole second page to this thread. However my thoughts remain the same, and excellent post Bob J.

This segment of my post I would like to call "Fun With JTrapper

On the subject of lure burnout, imagine that you are a young JTrapper, say 18 years old, and a girl walks by you. You smell her perfume, and it brings you in closer, luring you in like a Siren's Song. You approach that appealing sight and smell, thinking there may be a reward on the other side of this whole deal. You check it out, you like what you see, you like what you smell, much like a coyote approaching a dirt hole set that has had the trap pulled. You satisfy your curiousity, but as usual, you are rejected by the girl, or in the case of the coyote you have checked out the dirthole, rolled around a bit, but there was nothing there.

Next time J sees that pretty girl, she still looks good, she still smells good, but his curiousity has been satisfied. He knows there is no reward for him there, so why bother checking it out. I think the same holds true for a set where the trap has been pulled, but the trapper has left his lure stick behind.

Darn it Asa, I do not look for reasons to disagree with you, but I have to ask about this. I am not being difficult, I am just trying to learn something.

You post that you have seen the same coyote work the same lure time and time again from your deer blinds. That is evidence that coyotes do not become habituated to some lures. Yet in your earlier post, you talk at length about removing your lure sticks etc when you pull a set. I agree with you, that it is better to remove your lure smells if you can, but it seems to contradict your observations from your deer blind.
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#179395 - 04/15/07 08:59 AM Re: Lure burn out......... [Re: k9.]
Jtrapper Offline


Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 15585
Loc: Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
Your insulting coyote's intelligence by comparing them to me K9, i think you owe all the coyote's in the world an appology lol.

As I stated ive seen lure burnout ONCE and that was on coyote. I adjusted how I do things and haven't seen it since. IN other words it's way way down on the scale of IMPORTANT things to worry about in making catch's.

Those of your that have been around for 30 or more years, remember the fur boom days? Ever notice how less canines avoid set's now days compared to back then? Certain lure's back then were used by every yahoo in the county. Any fox that survived past the first week of opener pretty much would run all over but never go near dirthole sets or the main lure of choice in the area! Pretty much what turned me into a flat set trapper.
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Not my circus, not my clowns.

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#179399 - 04/15/07 09:04 AM Re: Lure burn out......... [Re: k9.]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 5946
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
K9:
The answer is simple, I don't believe that lures will burn out from season to season because probably a vast majority of coyotes harvested each season are Spring pups and yearlings that never smelled any lures before and 99% of those are harvested on their first set visit.
I believe lures could possibly burn out or the animals, even Spring pups and yearlings, might lose interest in them if they were to pass by a trapless set every day for months on end between trapping seasons.
Thanks for posing a great question! Ace

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#179403 - 04/15/07 09:09 AM Re: Lure burn out......... [Re: Asa Lenon]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 5946
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
J Trapper's last post, I agree there may have been a time in the fur boom of the late 70's that a lure could burn out. Every kid had a bottle of Hawbakers lure and a copy of Trapping North American urbearers open at the set while they spent an hour making the set acording to the detail of the book. That doesn't apply now, the trappers today are better educated and a lot less of them out in the field making bad proceedure errors. Ace

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#179450 - 04/15/07 10:03 AM Re: Lure burn out......... [Re: Asa Lenon]
Jtrapper Offline


Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 15585
Loc: Alabama (Bama for short) 108 y...
That doesn't apply now, the trappers today are better educated and a lot less of them out in the field making bad proceedure errors. Ace

Asa, Asa, lol.

Are you not aware of the 'errors' some have made this past season which has put alot of DNR's and states on the hot seat with the anti's?

Rethink that statement.

And what were you doing following me around in the late 70's? lol. Im guilty of what you wrote there only I didn't know about lure at that time, couldn't afford it is why, was using jack mackeral or sardines for an attactor, possum killing fool i was back then, lol.
_________________________
Not my circus, not my clowns.

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#179457 - 04/15/07 10:16 AM Re: Lure burn out......... [Re: Jtrapper]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 5946
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
Generally speaking J, trappers are better eductaed and make fewer blunders than they did in the late 70's. At least I haven't heard of anyone setting a #4 trap 100 feet behind someone's house and snipping the leg off from their pet poodle.
That isn't what I meant anyway, was referring to the education of canine in the field to sets, lures, odors, etc. Ace

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