I know alot of people are FOR, and alot are AGAINST selling to Groney, but I am trying to look at his website on when he will be visiting my area (Adrian, MI). If anyone has the direct site let me know thanks!

pm sent

Groeny gives you 100% clearance, at averages that compare favorably to the auction houses, AND you have the option to say no sale if you aren't satisfied. When you get to the site, pay attention to his current market reports.

mark i beg to differ,i have had many times people try to sell me fur that grony didnt want or offered so low so the 100% clearence is not correct...

Just checked his site...he has a twitter account for those who also twitter.

i know the guys that stops here in nebraska is the best buyer around hands down! very good servise

You could always call them.
815-938-2381
also they have always returned my e-mails promptly. (Within one Buisness day)
routes@gfwco.com

Later Bill

I just talked to a guy from Wis., yeah he had a $15 dollar top but he had a majority out and less then a five dollar average. If you have to give 40% or better away to get 100% clearance I would not call that good. Silver Back you try your guy tommorow, then PM me I will be stopping in Waco and Central City Starting on the 14th.

i already sold tonight trapperne

Differ all you want Chucky. All you know is what those guys told you. All I know is what I have experienced. As I have stated before, my averages have been comparable (and last year higher on coons)than what guys (with my type coon) got from the auction houses (either of them)with 100% clearances. No commissions, no fees, just out and out sale. If the Groenwald buyer rejected a piece of fur (and I have only seen that twice) then you probably should have as well. My particular buyer will reject them, with an explanation on the rare occassion that he has done so.
"I heard this" and "I heard that" doesn't cut it guys. That would include what I have told you, you don't have to believe me, I don't really care, you should give it a shot yourself though prior to carrying tales.
The main thing though, is you still have the option to say "no sale", not the forced holding of your fur until you are so darned thankful it sells for any price that you will accept anything, just to clear the books.

Trapperne, until you see those coon, you can't say whether this guy from WI gave those coon away, or it was a case of charity. Again, don't go entirely on what "some guy said". I am some guy too, and I said I have gotten a fair shake every time. I am a fur buyer, I know fur too, and like any other buyer who wants to stay in this business more than a season, I am not paying 10.00 on a 2.00 coon. Groenwald has been in this business for a lot of years, and he didn't stay here by cheating people or for being too generous.

Mark you know better then to compare 100% clearance of a fur buyers lot, I assume finished, and a guy with a pickup load of carcass coon, you should have 100% clearance or your not much of a fur buyer. you now as well as I do you can sort those carcass coon around into as many piles as you want then throw out a top price (purely marketing)But when it gets down to it you, me, groeny, and any other buyer worth a lick has an average in his head and no matter how many piles or how high the top your going to be close to that number.

Again trapperne, you misjudge me. I sold a lot of "green coon" to Groeny last year. I don't sell carcass coon at all, and the majority were put up. But I am a pretty popular buyer, and things got out of hand and I got backed up, so ended up selling several "green" ones.
I guess I am not "worth a lick" then because when a guy brings his coons into me, I give him a quote based on what I see, not based on what I want to have in them. In fact, I don't figure my averages (paid out) until after the guy is gone. That goes with knowing what your fur is worth.
Same way when I go to sell, I have in mind what I should come home with dollar wise.
Carcass coon? A man (or woman, let's not forget them) are extremely lucky to get 100% clearance from ANYONE unless 100% of the coon are of any value to the buyer.
When it becomes to "labor intensive", it has no value to a buyer.
You can turn that around of course (as a trapper) by taking the time to at least skin those coon, and even then (as demonstrated by Highview in another thread) there will be some of no value.
By the way, my "fur buyers lot" includes my own trapped fur. I am a trapper who buys fur, not a buyer who happens to set a few traps.

Well In my experince With the auction house and Groney. Groney has allways come up on the short end. And Iv'e been In this game a long time.
looks like he's still playing the old skin game. a few at extreamly high prices and then he hits the skids. But all anyone can remember Is the high end.
Stop and talk to guys leaving the skin wagon and they have no idea what there average was but will be all smiles about the High end stuff. I just grin and walk away shaking my head.
But he Is out there buying.

I am just saying Mark that you should clarify that when you state that you get 100% clearance, as a buyer you have already weeded out the no value stuff, thats not going to happen for a trapper. I am also a trapper who buys fur and I know enough that, atleast in my area, that there is not enough difference in an average run of carcass coon to sort them into 6 or 7 piles. I also know enough that when a buyer throws out a top price like that, they are fishing, and groeney got just what he wanted, silver back probably has been calling, posting, twittering, sending smoke signals, pigeon, to all his friends about the $15 dollar coon. Sorry, usually not the type of guy to keep stirring the pot, opening the shop tommorow and getting a little antsy to get the season going, got to do something to kill the night. lol

Ah trapperne, you are right, as a buyer I weed out the no value everything. That is what we do. Why waste time on anything of no value, except for one thing. I will often pay at least something to a school boy or beginner, and then show them what is wrong and WHY it isn't worth any more than what I offered. Often, those LOW value critters get thrown out, the NO value stuff regardless of who brings it goes back home with those who brought it, but I see what you are saying.
I won't be opening my shop for a couple of weeks yet, but I am already taking a few coons in as our hunting season opened on the first.
As to carcass coon, I rarely ever get more than a few at a time, more often than not, I couldn't "6 or 7 pile them" if I wanted to. There aren't enough to make that many piles, but like you,I don't see enough difference in carcass coon to do that.. Size matters for the most part, but that is also why I just won't pay much on them.
By the way, when I sell to Groeny, it is at the truck, and there are a number, larger number of trappers right there selling at the same time.
He knows I am a buyers, so he knows he is buying fur that has already been sorted, put up properly and so on..........

once again its the good groney, bad groney post time. Come January it will be the good NAFA, bad NAFA Post time. Gronewolds has always given me a fair price for my fur. Beav, I also have been in this game a long time and some years I have beat NAFA and sometimes I haven't but that is with green fur not finished. Yes my green fur sold to gronewolds has beat the NAFA finished prices a few times the past 30 years just as it did last year. I couldn't care less about the top price. It is the averages that I look at and I have been satisfied the majority of the time with those averages. If you are honest and fair with gronewolds you will get an honest and fair price. If you bring junk ( and I have seen many people bring fur to the truck that makes sick to think they call themselves trappers when they have so little respect for thier fur) then you will get junk prices. If you don't like the price then don't sell. That sure didn't happen at Nafa this past spring.

Beav, there is no way to get a dyed in the wool auction house type guy like yourself to see that there is no difference between low end at the "skin truck" and sitting in the warehouse in Canada for a couple of years. 100% clearances happen in both cases, but the difference is, the average at Groeny's is real, and RIGHT NOW, and the averages in Canada, are high up front, low in the end, and average out to much lower than what the trapper thinks he really got.
I think we have discussed this before. I read some of the BS from some of you guys on your false averages, and like you, all I can do is grin, walk away and shake my head. I have a lot of years in this "game" too, and I know well enough to know when I am being played by false numbers. This is why I don't use the big houses, but sell to the guy who buys at those same houses.
It helps that I know what I have.

Well said!

Mark you are lucky, we run about 85% carcass, 10% green and 5% finished fur, and when they bring in carcass stuff its by the truck load, thats why I think sorting and trying to identify half dozen differnet grades is a guess at best. Good luck to ya Mark we might need it this season. I am going to have one more cold one and try and get one last full nights sleep until May.

Shane

mark no i know exactly what i am saying is true as i was standing right there when they went to the window of the truck and seen what happened so is not hear say and another thing that gets funny is i have also offered guys more money for rats before and they sold for less to groney which makes no sense to me but it was their loss and groneys gain...

Mark, As I have said before this should make it easy for you to buy fur. Talking about turning money by going down the street and selling to Gronewald. What would make me want to sell you fur if you just sell to someone down the street? Can't the people you buy from sell to Gronewald and cut out the commissions you are charging? I just can't figure this one out. I do know you have other markets, you have told me that. But you sure speek big of Gronewald. I have sold to him and won't both to drive over to meet them anymore. They were just paying low avgs and not even looking at the fur. Pretty much counting it.

same concept as why sell in the country to a buyer whos gonna ship your fur to Canada anyway?

why not cut out the middle guy(in this case the country buyer) and make the extra money youd get in most cases, in most years from canada yourself?

Cause

Cathryn is absolutly right!!!

Fur buyers will be stealing fur this year.

Finance 101: Money now is worth more than money later.

With the way the economy is in now and how much worse it has yet to go, the above is especially true. With NAFA vs your fur buyer,if that is where his/her fur goes to in the end, if you do not think you can get at least a 7% better price after the commission and shipping costs than your local would give, sell it local.

cathryn might be right for some of it but i dont sell to grony or the canadian auctions...

If you play the auction the right way you will come out ahead.
Put up your best of the best and ship It. It will get you higher prices then in the country and you will In about 99% of the time get 100% clearences.
Sell your off goods in the country.

Everyone keeps talking of 100% clearance.....fill me in? Not sure what is is implying

Mink how much of your money did you lay on the line last year and buy fur with,this is the kind of stuff that just makes me sick when I see it.I still own all the fur I bought last year,and I may have to hold everything this year,so where to you come off that were stealing fur in the country.I wonder if you could go two maybe three years with out paycheck. I bet not.

Finance 101: Money now is worth more than money later.

I have a question for you SniperBBB then why do we have the stock market?,saving accounts,401k's,IRA's,money markets, there is a hole in the bottom of your finance 101 bucket.There would be no reason for anyone to invest in anything if everyone used this line of thinking.
Now as far as selling fur it all depends on what you feel is fair and right at the time your selling.I have sold fur just about everywhere,and there have been times I was happy,then there have been times I puked.This is the fur market,and market's go up and down,but for some reason trappers every year want a locked in stone number before they start trapping.Call groney and see if you get that locked in number,and I know why you wont get that locked in number,because markets go up and down and they know that.

To all that feel fur is to cheap right now,well maybe you should be buying fur instead of selling it,just jump right in and bring a fat check book with you,and belly up to the table to buy some work.I know I said buying work,because that is what your doing when you buy fur,it's work and most folks try to run from that now day's..................Ringtailtrapper

As trappers, if we get overly concerned with all the ways we get shafted on the price of our fur, we would hang up traps and never do it. These days you almost have to accept you are not going to get fair compensation.

I'm not blaming local buyers because they are at the mercy of the international trade too. Last year many of them paid too much for fur and now are in some trouble.

this and that........... want did everyone get for their hides?? high/low. thanks scott

Selling everything you offered.

ringtail you are right,how much money did mink sink in the fur last year to buy with? i bet nothing at all....

But ringtail, don't forget to mention the years the local buyers made out like a bandit when those coons were bringing $25 to $30 at NAFA but the trapper was only paid half that.The bottom line is the country buyer buys to make money. Why else would they be around. Why don't they just ship their own stuff to the auction instead of buying and adding to their personal fur? To make money. If I am offered $5 for my coons, then I expect to get $10 at the auction.

tbn sure I try to make money what part about the work dont you understand,gee you think I like the smell of coon and beaver fat every day,and as far as 25-30 dollar coon a NFA that happen for about three maybe four sales and then we have no clearance.$5 and sell for $10 well my profit has never been like that more like 20% if your lucky,gee I dont know what world some of you live in,please excuess me I have to go puke.....Ringtailtrapper

Then go puke. Much like you whiners that [Please excuse my language... I'm an idiot] about taxidermy prices? You think I like to smell coon and beaver fat everyday. Anybody that wants to put up a smoke screen to uneducated people that is fine,but it won't fly with me. You mean to tell me that prices are so bad from last year and there are 200,000 coon left unsold and you guys are going to buy for $5,put up,ship,wait for your check for $5 a coon? Jeez, you are a real generous guy who don't buy to make a profit but rather are just doing everybody a huge favor. If you lost your arse last year just like everybody else claims,why are you doing it again? Must have a real friendly banker. I am friends with a local buyer whom I have sold to in the past. He will flat out tell you,he expects to make $5 a coon at NAFA. So if he is paying me $5 and makes $5 then that adds up to $10! Why would anybody mess with you when they can send to the same place you and everyone else does and make more money? Whine all you want,I don't buy it.

Well said Ringtail.
What a lot of you fellas don't understand about a buyer shipping fur to the same company that auctions off your trapped fur is this. A buyer will get a goodly amt. more for fur than the trapper does at the same auction. A lot of buyers that know what is going on will pay just as well if not better than the auction can get for the trappers fur.
Makes you wonder how this happens don't it? Well it happens because the buyer has more contol over the fur that he has on the sale , than you do, as a trapper.
A buyer that full lots his own fur, decides at what price he wants to sell his fur at. This in turn can and does bring the buyer more money than the trapper gets for the same typ of fur.
As ringtail put it, all a country buyer is doing is buying himself and a couple of employees work to do.
One other thing a lot of fellas over look is this. We also have buyers that manufacture their own coats. These guys will buy from a country buyer at the same level or higher at times than the country buyer can get from the auction house.
When a country buyer sells direct, he is helping the trapper, himself and the end user. You may ask, how is this possible. Well it is possible because the end user has saved himself a good 15-20 percent by going direct to a country buyer. The end user has saved money on commision rates, handling fees, and lots of times shipping fees. This money in turn goes back into the pocket of the country buyer and then in turn is given back to the trapper.
Fellas there may be a few country buyers that are crooks, but by golly there are a lot of them that are as honest as the day is long.

tbn if you think its that easy then put up some money and buy fur and see what happens? odds are you wont...also not every buyer sends fur to the canadian auctions as you think they do...if we made $5 or as you say double what we pay all buyers would be rich...

good job don you tell them...

I started this thread. I am NOT concerned about making that much money. I love approaching my trap, wondering if I outsmarted a wild animal. Yes, I'm not an idiot and I do want to get as much money as I can out of it but I just want to trap and have fun, really that's all that matters in the end guys.

Haaa, I am a little smarter than that! Most I know work off of bank notes If you don't make money then why do it? Tell everybody that. I am fully aware of buyers can put a set price on their lots. I do taxidermy to make money,why don't you buy furs to make money? I never said it was easy and no I would not do it and that is my question. It is not easy as you stated,there is no money in it,so why do it?

And I will add one more thing. It is like the stock market,reading the market. You might not make any money this year or last year BUT when they sell, you will make money.Period. You are buying as an investment for later sale.

I am NOT buying that's the thing, I'm selling. Trapping isn't my career, nor is anything related to the fur industry. I realize alot of you guys have hundreds of traps out, spend all year and all your money towards it. Good for you. And you should be worried about how much money you get out of it. But for me, its a hobby. HOBBY

I don't understand what your first sentance means tbn. Also don't know what you mean by bank notes that everybody uses.

I do understand the part about making money though. You can bet your last nickle that I buy fur to make money.

If you really think that the buyers that are buying fur this year, have any idea how much profit they will make per hide, then you are wrong in your thinking.

Sometimes there just is no way to explain things to people that don't have a clue as to what they are talking about.

As far as being 100 percent positive about how much profit you may make, the direct sale to the end user is about as close to being on the money , than any other typ of sale. But believe it or not, more than once I have seen a deal between buyer and end user broke by the end user. It don't happen all the time, but it can and does happen.

TrapperNE, I can confirm what the guy from Wisconsin told you. I just got back from the Groney's truck in town. I haven't set anything yet, but went to see what the prices would be. I saw a guy bring in two coons, one of which was a really nice one as well as a muskrat. Groney paid 15.00 for the big one 3.00 for the small and two buck for the rat. All of these were on the carcass. Saw it with my own eyes, and am a little more excited about getting going.

Well Don,I can appreciate your clalmness and patience with my statements. I get wound up at times. I didn;t say everybody works off of bank loans but I know several that have and do.

thanks don for writing what you did,maybe tbn will understand it 1 day as the fur business is not even close to the taxidermy business as to how much a person will make in the end...

tbn, ain't no sence me getting worked up. That is what gets threads deleted. Once they get deleted then we can no longer discuss the issue.
I suppose that there are quite a few people that buy fur, that probably borrow money to work with.

Funny thing about borrowing money is this. When I was just a grasshopper, I asked the banks for a loan to buy fur with. They wouldn't have nothing to do with giving me money. So I had to buy and sell about once a week to keep operating.

Well funny how things worked out after a few years of doing that. The bank manager asked me one day if I would like to borrow some operating capital. I just looked at the man and asked him where he was when I really needed him.

tbn, you are absolutely clueless

What I am saying is, if your not going to get at least a 20% increase, lower if your in the fur council, over what the local buyer is paying, your not really gaining much.

As for the stock market and others you mentioned, that game is played out over decades, where even with treasuries your money could double in 36 years, the fur market is by nature short term. Taking the safe money vs. taking a risk that can backfire.

A couple of things that have been said but not real clearly in comparing selling to groney
First it has been mentioned he starts out high and then drops right off.I sent some coon to auction last year and it was the same thing there,mid twenties down to a buck fifty.Both averages ended just about the same with no fees with groney.
Second the no value fur.Mark and others have already stated that in buying fur there is going to be some that is not worth messing with.I have taken some pretty rough looking stuff to groney (try to salvage every thing I can)and only had one possum he didn't want (last year).Same thing with the auction houses selling those junk furs for nothing just to get rid of them(I don't think they have any way of rejecting them from the trapper)
Third The sorting or grading groney does.I also sent some rats to auction last year and they ended up in maney grades/lots.The auction houses try to get lots with all the furs looking the same as that is what the buyers are looking for.With groney it seemes there is three or four lots/piles he puts them in,however that means only three or four prices and agian the averages come out almost the same +/- a little with no fees.(much higer tops at the auction house than with groney but still the same average)
The same thing with the quality.Groney may look like he is JUST SORTING FOR AN AVERAGE but with the boy and I we usually have more than one lot of each type of fur(mine,his,ours) I have a lot to learn about grading fur but I can tell the difference in the quality of each lot and the averages of each lot are always different some times by quite a bit.
I will send some stuff to auction agian this year(I love to listen to the live broadcast as they sell and nafa greg taught me so much about putting up fur it now gives me the option to send it there)but most all of oure stuff will go to groney.We end up having a lot of good conversations with others at the truck and are happy with what we get paid.
There will be those that can honestly say they do a lot better shipping.Just like any thing else for certian grades/colors/sizes ect certian markets will always do much better than others.The thing for each person is to try out whatever way they have to market there fur and see what one is right for them.

c hartman

Well sniffpuppy , you just clue me in then.I am all ears. You buy fur for no profit also?

To answer the question of how much money I put into fur every year it is well into the six figure range. The fur industry is my career.

What I see is fur buyers want to get your fur as cheap as they can, auctions want to get as much money for your fur as possible. Fur buyers are usually behind on the fur market as the auctions set the price trends.

Do you work for NAFA?.............Ringtailtrapper

No, not at all.

thank you Mink99 for your honestly, could'nt agree any more

Bottom line is sell your fur the way you want to and to who you want but don't complain about someone else's option with there fur. Everyone wants to make money on what they are doing if it is trapping only or buying. No one buys fur green to put it up and not make money and anyone who begrudges that is just brain dead.

mink it wasn't how much you put in to the fur industry but how much money you spend on buying raw fur? as every trapper or fur buyer puts money into the industry

tbn, some years