I think there's alot of differnece between giving animals credit and giving coyote's credit. Coyote's are in a league by themselves..............................................

You did not say he may have gotten run over by a car, nor did you say that might have broken free due equipment failure, what you did say is above and to me it sounds like you jumped purdy hard.

Bill, how well do you blend your sets in? I haul sugar sand in to the set in many locations as it works great in the bed of wet clay and will pack around a trap making it tight as Slim's hat band. I don't blend many of my set in at all, I like to use the pattern for eye appeal.

Cut the coyotes "credit" short and you'll cut your catch rate as well.

Not trying to write a book with a small response. Sorry, I'll have to cover all my bases a little better. You didn't even catch the Duke 1 1/2 I caught him in and make a response on that, eh Howard.

What I did say is, more or less, directly or indirectly, it was trapping related. Apparently you have a problem reading between the lines. Keep messing with me and I'll start picking apart your posts.

Most of the time I will blend in sets. I usally set up on the edges of coastal fields and use dead grass. There is usally pine timber bordering these fields and I will move into the timber on fire breaks and make sets there also. I will not blend in these sets, white sand on red pine needles makes for great eye appeal.

I have a feeling we blend them about he same as there is not much difference between our terrain. I hope see in person this year either here or there.

Na, your right, less don't go there. That is what Blackdog is around for and I for sure don't want to be thought of as picking apart post like that. You are right though, if I had picked up on the fact you caught that three legged yote in a Duke trap, I would have hammered for that. My point could have been made better, but the point is still the same, we have enough people putting us under the microscope for lam critters, I don't like to see trappers have negative attitude toward our own kind.

I knew you missed that. Wasn't trying to make any other trapper look bad. We don't have very many around here. I havn't tangled with you in a while so I thought I would see if I could get you riled up a little with the 1 1/2 comment. All good.

I have caught at least 100 coyotes over the years with paws or toes missing. For years we never had any trap check laws and most long line coyote trappers like myself only checked traps every three days and there were others who checked traps only on weekends. Also, this is a soft sand country so all trappers used drags and chain so suppose many couldn't find the trapped animal and it stayed in the trap until its paw/toes come off. There was no question that 99% of those coyotes missing paws and/or toes were the result of traps. One doesn't see so much of that these days with trappers more educated, checking traps more often and thinking more humanely. Asa

That is not always the case calvin. There are alot of us that catch over 100 a year out here every year, and we do not put them on a very high pedestal. Same over there in the East, I know several trappers that catch over 100 every year, and a few catch near 200; and that is on the East side of the big river.

Asa I have too caught several with missing toes and a couple with no foot, like you said, not as many in recent years. I chalk that up to better equipment.

I agree totally with this statement. I feel that with the laws in place and the educated trappers, for the most part out there today, any lam critter is due to pull out or equipment failure.

Another problem I am seeing here in my part of the world is deer hunters missing their mark. I have taken three such animals in the past three years. I do not blame the deer hunters as they are seeing over population of predators on their deer leases. I do wish they would let more trappers in to take care of the problems, but as with most land owners they fear having some stranger on their land. I would also venture to say that most trappers who gain access to land ask if they can hunt deer after the first year of trapping land and find themselves not having permission the following season.

And a lower fur market, keeping a lot of beginners not wanting to trap the coyotes.

Fur trapping is different than control work. For fur trapping, just go set some traps and do not over think things.

Some of you guys way over think things and give animals way too much credit.

Yes, there are exceptions, especially with control work, but in general they are not smart.

Good thread.

I think most of the digging is from coon and grey fox.I've also called canines dumb on occasion,and as a whole most of them are,IMO.I must also go on to say that theres a segment of the population that is very,very smart.This is where the diggers,the ones that stand back and the ones that shy completly away come in.It goes back to what Ace was saying about dogs.

People like to lump things into categories,I don't think its quite so simple.I think different things throw red flags for different animals.Whether its trap shy,hole shy,scent shy or what have you,its not one size fits all.

I do think scent shy is one of the major types encountered.Animals quickly learn to associate strange smells with danger.How they respond to this danger varies from animal to animal.Hence the reason why the best lure is sometimes no lure at all.

I'm not so sure about some canines not being able to detect unseen dangers or being taught dangers by parents.Young learn to hunt by mimicking adult behavoir and body language.I don't think its unreasonabe for an adult to exibit fear in a certain situation and have the pups mimic and learn,about like a me too tree dog.

I also have a friend with a shepard/lab mutt that uses one of those buried fences.The mutt may not know what it is but he knows exactly where its buried and how to beat it.He will take off on a dead run,jump the buried fence and keep on motoring.

onecat. That line of thinking wont get you far in this neck of the woods...when it comes to yotes, anyhow. There is something to be said for setting LOTS of traps over a large range AFTER you have gotten used to taking coyotes, though. Anyone can streamline after getting the fundamentals down. "just go set some traps"...REALLY?

Last time I was out west there were yotes walking up to my car in broad daylight...that doesn't happen here.

I have trapped in the East on several occasions, never Michigan granted, but In, Ms, Al, Tn, Ky, Nc, and for the most part coyotes are the same. East and West. There will always be exclusions and special instances where certain areas have a larger number of skittish animals, but I would be willing to bet 95% of places you can set on location, make a natural looking set, use common sense and not go overboard and try to wear a space suit and catch a large number of coyotes.

I agree with that statement for the most part, onecat. Depending on the definition of "overboard" (changes from person to person, I guess). One thing I keep remembering from my own experiences is when I was a young kid trying to learn how to trap fox (no yotes here back then). I never did squat until I learned the value of clean traps and making sure my odors (lure/ human scent, etc) were in the correct locations (not on my traps). I never had any problem after that issue was resolved and I still pay close attention to it today. We become better at locations and systems as we gain experience. "Cross contamination" of scent causes issues...and diggers at times.

Not having trapped out west, I can only "suspect" that things may be abit different out there (I may be wrong) as I see some pretty big named guys tossing lure down the hole with the same gloves on that they just set the trap with and will continue to set traps with all day and re-lure. Going to run into a wall with that method here...or at least I would hit the wall. Maybe pick up a couple pups but every coon in the country would flip your traps out. But keeping scents separate just fits into the "use common sense" approach you stated in my book.

A lot of the problem with you "eastern boys" is the fact that there are very few actual coyote trappers per say in the east. A bunch of fox trappers that got invaded by coyotes so now you have a group of people running around acting like coyote trappers. Your sets still look like fox sets, your locations are still fox locations, and your bait and lure methods are still those of fox trappers.

There is more to coyote trapping than going out like a fox trapper just using bigger traps than you would for fox. They are two totally different animals but once you learn them both they are both very simple to catch. But when you target yotes like fox your results will always be marginal at best hence putting the coyote on a pedistal for most guys back there. (There are some that know how to roll them there but few and they are the guys that make it look easy and don't make a big deal out of it)

Onecat, I have to disagree with your general statement. From What I here on these forums, You fellas out west have NO pressure or minimal competition. You also have a higher coyote population also.
If your coyote population was cut in half AND your number of trappers quadrupled, You would find trapping taking on a completely new dimension and your current methods in need of some refining. JMO!