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#1465335 - 08/20/09 09:59 PM Re: Are coyotes diggers? [Re: tbn]
Bowhunter74 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/08
Posts: 816
Loc: Western NY
I walked up on a set where just a tiny bit of a jaw was uncovered. My guess is a wise coyote had pawed at it. I've yet to catch a coyote, however I'm sure it's my fault. I'm sure my bedding isn't as good as it needs to be. I purchased some sleepy creek center stake traps and a trap better to help my confidence when setting. The other thing that I've found to be very important is being very careful and aware of any odors i leave behind. Try and cover them up with fox or coyote pee if I can. For example, when baiting I don't even open the bait or lure till it's over the spot I'm going to use it on. That way there're no drips or acidents except where I want them. I also never set it down on the ground I usually keep everything in a back pack or in a bucket that I know has only ever touched non contaminated ground.

Bowhunter

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#1465419 - 08/20/09 11:56 PM Re: Are coyotes diggers? [Re: Bowhunter74]
M. Howard Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 4553
Loc: Louisiana
Well this post has been kicked around and gone from one end to the other and I have enjoyed it. The question was, “do coyotes dig?” The answer is yes, but not as much as fox and coon. What causes them to dig is as varied as way some people pick their nose in public and others do not. I for one can not pass a fire ant mound that I don’t kick just for meanness and to watch them work their little buts off. What I am fixing to share is intended as my view and my view only, agree or disagree I have found success with these procedures.

I ran traps the same way with mixed success for years. Once I got on this site I read so much stuff that I was doing wrong I could not believe I had ever caught anything. I began to try some of these things out and watched as my success went down the drain. I said to heck with the way the pro’s do it, I am going back to the old way and began catching again. Dad always said “if it anit broke, don’t fix it.”

First off is 9” back and 2” to the left. That one really blew my mind till I figured out they were talking about the cent of the pan. I use the 1 finger, 2 finger and 3 finger rule. On fox with a 4.5 jaw spread trap I run it right against the hole with an index finger width between the hole and the jaw. How many trappers carry a ruler to woods? I use the old school southern method. I judge everything, but it is measured from the hole to the jaw and with finger widths not inches. Heck half the trappers out there don’t even know how long an inch is, just ask their wives. I set mine back or forward depending on the animal I am intending to catch and the size trap I am using to catch said animal.

Next is the contamination factor. I never thought about contamination till I joined this site and heard had bad a thing it really was. I never said very much because there were too many first year pros out there ready to call me a fool and in fact did. The picture below is of a coyote with a sloppy dispatch. I was hammered so hard by so many people about this picture and the blood ever where. I felt really bad so I started doing it their way and went and made me a fancy catch pole just so I could dispatch away from the set. Dumb me did not think about just how many coyotes had come from this set already with the previous coyote’s blood all over the trap and the blood covered with dirt at set.



Now with the picture above and the sloppy dispatch, why did the coyotes keep coming to the set? It simply as I have stated before, I had retarded animals here. But what really kills me is the statement that you have to change traps after every catch. WOW! I would have to own 200 fox trap and 200 coyote traps and spend half my time changing traps if that were the case. If I changed ever trap out after a catch I would never get the line run or would have to run half the traps I do not. I am hobby trapper who does it before work and takes vacation to trap. All I can tell you is I would not want to trap behind me. Back to the point though, how can I have up to three coyotes caught in one trap with a coon and possum through in there in 7 days. I mean there is coyote pee, coon pee and possum dodo all over the trap with little to no wax after the coon. Still they come. I am sure it is because I don’t have any computation and a high population. But wait a fellow trapper 5 miles down the road states that once they get educated you want catch as many. What ever the reason, they keep coming to bloody, stinking traps.

Below is a picture of crow taken in crow season with a trap set for the crow. The crow was not a non-target just so the picture doesn’t get whacked for it being a non target. I baited or lured this crow with a piece of wax paper over my pan and covered much like you would do for a fox or coyote set. In fact, one might say it looked just like a fox set with nothing exposed. Any way, you can see what a good catch was made on the crow and you can also notice that the lure is gone. The wax paper was nowhere to be found. This picture was taken as he was found. Go figure. I deleted the video of a crow that got caught trying to steal my wax paper because I was told I could not show it as it was non target.


But I keep this one.


Also, this picture below is a target animal. I keep having my wax paper exposed and or missing. There were acorns around the set and could tell they were being placed there, so I set a hair trigger. This is what I found exposing or stealing my wax paper.



So I assume nothing when it comes to trapping. I use the same pair of gloves, the same set, and the same knee pad. JLord said it best and he and I spoke and agreed on about this a month ago, our scent control is simply to spend as little time at the set as possible leaving less scent to air out. Keep your cover dirt clean and put a good lure down the hole that they want. Most humans like the smell of BBQ while it is cooking, but only a few love the smell of chicken (I hate chicken). Just as K-9s have smells that turns them on like a chicken bone while other just make them look or sniff. I still feel that coyotes are given too much credit and humans give ourselves to little.

This video shows the reaction of a coyote to lure. Check out how he worked the set from the front like he should’ve. No trap was in place. I took a red and a cat at this set location two months later. Never did catch a coyote here.



While this coyote came in from the high backing working it from the back side. You can’t tell because you don’t know where the hole is. The hole is to his right when you first see him. He did not work the set, but rather sniffed it. It is still to early and hot to get a true reading on them right now.



Cut apart, dissect and call me a fool. I learn just as much from reading these post as the next guy, I just know what works for me and what I will call foul on.


Edited by M. Howard (08/21/09 01:56 AM)
_________________________
My mind is still as sharp as a steel trap,.....with off set jaws.
http://www.louisianatrappers.com/index.html

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#1465420 - 08/20/09 11:59 PM Re: Are coyotes diggers? [Re: M. Howard]
M. Howard Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 4553
Loc: Louisiana
Oh and one last thing, I do believe that if you make a new set right out side the catch circle you will catch there also. I am just to lazy to make another set like that. LOL. Really never thought that much about it till Tom and I spoke at Lima and what he said made sense.


Edited by M. Howard (08/21/09 12:12 AM)
_________________________
My mind is still as sharp as a steel trap,.....with off set jaws.
http://www.louisianatrappers.com/index.html

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#1465514 - 08/21/09 06:28 AM Re: Are coyotes diggers? [Re: M. Howard]
wr otis Offline
trapper

Registered: 06/30/08
Posts: 964
Loc: SW Pa
Do you catch alot of coyotes in remakes immediately within the next day or three?

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#1465535 - 08/21/09 07:09 AM Re: Are coyotes diggers? [Re: wr otis]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 4700
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
One thing that causes a lot of disagreement on any factor being discussed about coyotes is the regional differences, I do not believe a coyote is a coyote is a coyote wherever they reside. A coyote may be a coyote genetically (which can also be questionable considering regional size and coloration variations) but his conditioning and needs may vary widely from region to region. I suspect from many years of discussing this topic with professional trappers who have trapped several different locations from East to South to West that animal population vs food supply, human population in how close of proximity the coyote are living with humans, arid climates vs humid climates being that humidity has a tendancy to hold and intensifies odors around sets and how relentlessly the coyotes have been persued by hunters, dogs, airplanes and trappers. These are the reasons I don't believe we can debunk anyone's practices without having trapped a few miles in thier boots. The last thing that comes to mind is that there must be a reason why some trappers excell over others when both are trapping the same areas with equal numbers of traps and time expended. The only reason I can think of aside from hard work and organization is that the most successful are paying attention to every detail both small and large. The most successful doesn't say to themselves I am going to eliminate this or that proceedure because I have never seen any proof that it was necessary. Its pretty difficult when one is harvesting 100 to 120 or more coyotes per season to determine whether they might have caught 123 had they paid attention to that small detail. I think most trappers would be astonished if they had any idea how many set visits they had where the coyote didn't commit. I have always said that everyone should have to trap in the snow at least one season and see by the tracks all of the reactions around sets, how many close encounters and how many outright avoidances. Then they would likely buckle down to detail and see thier harvest numbers increase without working any harder or placing any additional sets. At least that has been my experiences and my opinion based on those experiences. Asa


Edited by Asa Lenon (08/21/09 07:16 AM)

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#1465537 - 08/21/09 07:10 AM Re: Are coyotes diggers? [Re: wr otis]
PappyD Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 3316
Loc: West Tennessee
As a newbie, I love these posts where you guys with experience discuss an issue. I feel I can prevent myself from some newbie mistakes by takin it all in. Great post guys!
_________________________
Whether ya think ya can or ya think ya can't, your usually right!

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#1465598 - 08/21/09 08:00 AM Re: Are coyotes diggers? [Re: tbn]
B.EVANS Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/09/07
Posts: 106
Loc: Cotton valley La.
I think if you keep your equipment clean and scent down from what i have seen you will not have any digger's and trapping with dirty equipemt how many coyotes do you think you are missing.IMO

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#1465615 - 08/21/09 08:20 AM Re: Are coyotes diggers? [Re: M. Howard]
DaveM Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 300
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: M. Howard
Well this post has been kicked around and gone from one end to the other and I have enjoyed it. The question was, “do coyotes dig?” The answer is yes, but not as much as fox and coon. What causes them to dig is as varied as way some people pick their nose in public and others do not. I for one can not pass a fire ant mound that I don’t kick just for meanness and to watch them work their little buts off. What I am fixing to share is intended as my view and my view only, agree or disagree I have found success with these procedures.

I ran traps the same way with mixed success for years. Once I got on this site I read so much stuff that I was doing wrong I could not believe I had ever caught anything. I began to try some of these things out and watched as my success went down the drain. I said to heck with the way the pro’s do it, I am going back to the old way and began catching again. Dad always said “if it anit broke, don’t fix it.”

First off is 9” back and 2” to the left. That one really blew my mind till I figured out they were talking about the cent of the pan. I use the 1 finger, 2 finger and 3 finger rule. On fox with a 4.5 jaw spread trap I run it right against the hole with an index finger width between the hole and the jaw. How many trappers carry a ruler to woods? I use the old school southern method. I judge everything, but it is measured from the hole to the jaw and with finger widths not inches. Heck half the trappers out there don’t even know how long an inch is, just ask their wives. I set mine back or forward depending on the animal I am intending to catch and the size trap I am using to catch said animal.

Next is the contamination factor. I never thought about contamination till I joined this site and heard had bad a thing it really was. I never said very much because there were too many first year pros out there ready to call me a fool and in fact did. The picture below is of a coyote with a sloppy dispatch. I was hammered so hard by so many people about this picture and the blood ever where. I felt really bad so I started doing it their way and went and made me a fancy catch pole just so I could dispatch away from the set. Dumb me did not think about just how many coyotes had come from this set already with the previous coyote’s blood all over the trap and the blood covered with dirt at set.



Now with the picture above and the sloppy dispatch, why did the coyotes keep coming to the set? It simply as I have stated before, I had retarded animals here. But what really kills me is the statement that you have to change traps after every catch. WOW! I would have to own 200 fox trap and 200 coyote traps and spend half my time changing traps if that were the case. If I changed ever trap out after a catch I would never get the line run or would have to run half the traps I do not. I am hobby trapper who does it before work and takes vacation to trap. All I can tell you is I would not want to trap behind me. Back to the point though, how can I have up to three coyotes caught in one trap with a coon and possum through in there in 7 days. I mean there is coyote pee, coon pee and possum dodo all over the trap with little to no wax after the coon. Still they come. I am sure it is because I don’t have any computation and a high population. But wait a fellow trapper 5 miles down the road states that once they get educated you want catch as many. What ever the reason, they keep coming to bloody, stinking traps.

Below is a picture of crow taken in crow season with a trap set for the crow. The crow was not a non-target just so the picture doesn’t get whacked for it being a non target. I baited or lured this crow with a piece of wax paper over my pan and covered much like you would do for a fox or coyote set. In fact, one might say it looked just like a fox set with nothing exposed. Any way, you can see what a good catch was made on the crow and you can also notice that the lure is gone. The wax paper was nowhere to be found. This picture was taken as he was found. Go figure. I deleted the video of a crow that got caught trying to steal my wax paper because I was told I could not show it as it was non target.


But I keep this one.


Also, this picture below is a target animal. I keep having my wax paper exposed and or missing. There were acorns around the set and could tell they were being placed there, so I set a hair trigger. This is what I found exposing or stealing my wax paper.



So I assume nothing when it comes to trapping. I use the same pair of gloves, the same set, and the same knee pad. JLord said it best and he and I spoke and agreed on about this a month ago, our scent control is simply to spend as little time at the set as possible leaving less scent to air out. Keep your cover dirt clean and put a good lure down the hole that they want. Most humans like the smell of BBQ while it is cooking, but only a few love the smell of chicken (I hate chicken). Just as K-9s have smells that turns them on like a chicken bone while other just make them look or sniff. I still feel that coyotes are given too much credit and humans give ourselves to little.

This video shows the reaction of a coyote to lure. Check out how he worked the set from the front like he should’ve. No trap was in place. I took a red and a cat at this set location two months later. Never did catch a coyote here.



While this coyote came in from the high backing working it from the back side. You can’t tell because you don’t know where the hole is. The hole is to his right when you first see him. He did not work the set, but rather sniffed it. It is still to early and hot to get a true reading on them right now.



Cut apart, dissect and call me a fool. I learn just as much from reading these post as the next guy, I just know what works for me and what I will call foul on.



Mhoward, great post!

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#1465635 - 08/21/09 08:39 AM Re: Are coyotes diggers? [Re: DaveM]
Calvin Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 1999
Loc: MN.
Well said AGAIN, Asa...Very well said.

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#1465688 - 08/21/09 09:15 AM Re: Are coyotes diggers? [Re: Xtreme1]
LineMtnCooner Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 3111
Loc: Northumberland County, PA
Originally Posted By: Xtreme1
Digging is not that big of an issue, once again, some trappers use it as an excuse as to why they are not putting the cuffs on coyotes. Several QUALITY lures advertise their product to have a digging and scratching response. Pedersen's" Trench Maker", O'Gormans "Big Horns Medicine", and "Revenge" just to name a few.I don't hit a coyote or fox line without some OG's or Slim's lures in my bag. There are 2 guys that KNOW coyotes.


The digging in the question that was asked refered to digging at traps, right? These lures cause digging at the hole or where lure is placed, not the trap. I don't mind canines digging at the hole, causing them to stay around the set longer.
_________________________

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#1465701 - 08/21/09 09:19 AM Re: Are coyotes diggers? [Re: Calvin]
CharlesKS Offline

trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 11188
Loc: Kansas,32,6-1,220,B/B NS
Diggers Smiggers. while evertyone else is trying to outsmart one coyote, im out catchint the others thatare not as lucky.

9 times out of ten, something else was at the set BEFORE the coyote, exposing the trap, packrat, RABBIT, bird, whatever. so the coyote just saw the trap exposed.

poorly bedded trap is a MAIN reason.

unless your doing damage control, who cares. move on. unless oyur pride gets in the way of your making catches.
_________________________
the truth WILL set you free, if your capable of telling it!

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#1465892 - 08/21/09 11:44 AM Re: Are coyotes diggers? [Re: CharlesKS]
Calvin Offline
trapper

Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 1999
Loc: MN.
That can be done in higher population areas. However, we all don't have that many coyotes to "just move on". Some are stuck catching the ones that are here...which in my parts means one of two might come past every 4-6 days. Some places you only get once chance at 1...not a dozen. Again, adapting to each persons circumstances dictates how we trap. Not right or wrong...just might be different approaches depending on tons of factors.

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#1466398 - 08/21/09 05:49 PM Re: Are coyotes diggers? [Re: Calvin]
tbn Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/29/06
Posts: 1367
Loc: kansas
Jeeeezz Charles, where have you been lately? All kidding aside, this has turned out to be very interesting. I sometimes ask myself why spend time trapping coyotes when I can catch 4 or 5 times the coon but there is something about trapping canines that I enjoy.

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#1466422 - 08/21/09 06:09 PM Re: Are coyotes diggers? [Re: tbn]
wr otis Offline
trapper

Registered: 06/30/08
Posts: 964
Loc: SW Pa
I believe is spite of what some may think of his attention to detail that Asa would probably eat most guys lunch if he were trapping the same ground. And I sure do agree with him on the snow trapping, Jim Conner will tell you the same thing about trapping in the desert sands.

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#1466556 - 08/21/09 08:19 PM Re: Are coyotes diggers? [Re: Andy S]
j lord Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 6485
Loc: TN, just north of Smackdown
lmao!!!
_________________________
James
--------
I survived the timeout of Feb '07

Runnin' With J Lord two disk set

www.mallardlanefarms.com

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#1466634 - 08/21/09 09:06 PM Re: Are coyotes diggers? [Re: j lord]
hunterchub Online   content
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 1699
Loc: Tennessee
Im with Charles. Move on unless you like playing around. My belief is that each critter is different. Could be coon, fox, coyote, possum, skunk doing the digging. I would say most times its a coon. Some videos that have been shown lately sure do bring to light what a critter thinks. Working all areas of a trap site..front.back. side. and downwind. Rest be assured most critters know you have been there. You job as a trapper is to get them to put there foot in a trap. What this means is taking there attention away from what may be evident. Andy peeing on a trap bed is funny but can a trapper catch a critter there. I bet they can. Of course I have no idea what his [Please excuse my language... I'm an idiot] might smell like but critters smell stuff like that all the time. A fine example might be tractors and there oils and gas leaking. How many times have you seen tracks all over a freshly plowed or disced field. Back to digging.... I had a set once that a coyote would lay out and reach toward the trap bed and drag, scratch and dig until he exposed the trap. Quite comical. Move on as Charles said.
_________________________

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#1466670 - 08/21/09 09:29 PM Re: Are coyotes diggers? [Re: hunterchub]
Slim Pedersen Offline
"ALL HAIL EL PRESIDENTAY! "

Registered: 01/01/07
Posts: 802
Loc: Georgia
Of course coyotes dig in the ground. Probably the first game that the pups catch are insects, then mice, and all by digging.
Here in Georgia where dead livestock must be buried, coyotes will often dig down as deep as five feet to get to a carcass, if they want to eat on it or not---curiosity if for no other reason.

I believe this whole thread has covered the stuff about digging for traps quite well over all, but I would like to throw one more thing out there just to make you think about why they may want to dig for a trap----it is not a bit uncommon for a burrowing rodent to often dig a hole and then remain just under the surface in the loose dirt in front or behind the hole they dug. I am sure many predators have learned this over the time they have been searching for prey. Loose dirt may be the source of food, and so by habit alone, it is something to investigate.

Did they know it was a trap when they exposed it? Or did they just dig something of no interest or possible food from the ground like a root or rock. I doubt if they have enough reasoning power to understand that is something that is going to grap their paw or even that it is a source of possible danger unless it happens to spring and throw dirt in their face.

I also believe that more mice and rats as well as curios birds such as magpies, crows, and insect seeking birds dig for pan covers that they detect than trappers realize. Which of course has been discussed a bit in proper bedding techniques, but I throw it out there again to make trappers study the stiruations around thier digging situations. Don't make the problems appear to be any bigger than they really are.



Edited by Slim Pedersen (08/21/09 09:30 PM)
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Proud to be a trapper and supporter of trapping organizations

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#1466677 - 08/21/09 09:30 PM Re: Are coyotes diggers? [Re: j lord]
clear lake trapp Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 407
Loc: st. lawrence county ny
Asa, very well put.The first year I trapped specifically for coyotes I did not catch a coyote that year.Not because the coyotes were smart but because I was dumb.Inadiquate traps,wrong chain length in general poorly done sets.Purely and simply my own fault.I found tracks on pans,traps dug out,traps and stake pulled(I never lost a trap or stake though they would be laying within 20yards of the set).If I would have actually held one I would have caught several.That's when I found T-Man.Alot of time reading the Archives and discussing with people on here.Adequate traps,modified Bridgers,(for the curious I started out with Duke #2 coils unmodified)proper chain set up and much improved staking.Success rates way up.Trap bedding changed alot too,peet moss,dirt,salt and pan cover right off the bat,I don't have a warm weather cold weather alternative,same way every time,no more tracks on pans.Ironically the only coyote I had ever caught in a foot trap was at a bobcat cubby in a DBL Longspring trap covered in cedar needles,go figure right?I have had coyotes pull cubbies made of natural materials apart and crap on the coni.In the southern half of New York I have seen coyotes stand 45 yards out in a field let a guy get out of a truck,uncase a rifle,load it and shoot it.Where I trap and hunt in upstate New York coyotes are considered much warier of humans.I saw a coyote crossing a beaver meadow from a tree stand that was in a pine tree.The dog was 75 or 80 yards crossing in front of me.While he was trotting along I reached my right hand up slowly to take my rifle of the hook and that yote almost turned inside out turning and right back where he came from.Asa's regional difference?To tie that back to trapping,coyotes are considered very wary in my region yet I never had trouble getting them to work a set,it was holding them.We catch many that are well over 45lbs and that first year equipment was not up to it.If not for this site I may have never changed my methods and would have been saying"they are impossible to catch with any type of regularity".I now believe they are given way to much credit for our mistakes.This has been a good post to read through alot of good thoughts and observations.


Edited by clear lake trapp (08/21/09 11:41 PM)
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I've hunted or trapped almost every day of my life the rest have been wasted!

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#1466710 - 08/21/09 09:53 PM Re: Are coyotes diggers? [Re: clear lake trapp]
Ole Hawkeye Online   content
trapper

Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 6554
Loc: Oregon
I have ignored this thread, I haven't read all the answers. What is the mystery? Do coyotes dig? Are mink inquisitve? Do coon eat fish? Do salmon go up river to spawn? Do badgers eat mice?
_________________________
I'll hang on to my freedom, guns, and money.

You can keep the change

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#1466711 - 08/21/09 09:55 PM Re: Are coyotes diggers? [Re: Ole Hawkeye]
Ole Hawkeye Online   content
trapper

Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 6554
Loc: Oregon
I forgot to ask if a bear pooped in the woods or if the Pope was Catholic.
_________________________
I'll hang on to my freedom, guns, and money.

You can keep the change

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