I tried to find my old thread on this topic, but couldn't. TO bring those up to speed that didn't get to see the other tread, I have been trapping a golf course where the muskrats are collapsing the pond banks. I had to build rafts to put the traps on and cover them so the few bunny-huggers in the neighborhood would not be alarmed by seeing a muskrat gagged in a trap.

Here's the problem. I have had rafts out since last Sat. and have not cuaght a single rat. I have shot a couple as toting an airgun was part of the deal, but with VERY limited cover around most of these ponds, I very often have to wait 'til next time to get a closer shot. As everyone knows, a swimming muskrat doesn't present very much of a target. I have been successful, but I have to be very precise as to when and where to shoot. Most of the time I only have one spot if I'm lucky that provides enough cover and is close enough to the pond to get a shot, even then they have to be within a very small area for the shot direction to be safe. I have been quite lucky with my shot oppurtunities, but they do take time to develope and to get close enough with the air gun to make the kill (about 30 yards) I have to be VERY still. Any movement and these critters are gone, almost like some one has already been shooting at them.

I have had trouble finding dens as I think they are making them, then it falls in, then they move down the bank a few yards and make another. It's been hard finding which ones they actually use. These ponds are all full of grass carp and they have been spawning all week. I don't know if the rats are shying away from the edge for that reason or not, but I cannot find a single hole that appears to have any runs coming from it. All I can see in the water's edge are fish beds. I have only seen 1 muskrat in each pond where the rafts are, except for one pond, where I have seen none. In that pond there are 2 rafts and neither had been touched.

I think I have located the den in the pond I was shooting over this morning. I do not have a raft in this pond. I'm pretty sure I got one of them, as he seemed to be struggling when he resurfaced, but I can't be sure.

I want to trap this pond, but I'm not real sure where the den is. I put out some carrots, potatoes, apples and a little cilantro that my wife had in the fridge for bait along the edge this morning. This is what I need to know:

1.)Can anyone tell me how to make a setup and what kind of bait to use that will draw them into the trap on the bank that will be more effective than the floats? I want to do a conibear setup on the edge of the pond (120's & 160's).

2.)Will taking the tops off the floats so they can see the bait help?

3.) What is the best bait?

Any help this would be greaty appreciated. I need to send them a bill next week and I don't want to do it unless I can get rid of the 2 I've been seeing for certain.

Thanks.

if legal in your state use colony traps and set one in every hole you find. baited 110s with a slice of apple on the triggers work well. also on your floats use some muskrat gland lure also with a food base lure.. that should help.

thanks, I'm already using a lure I bought on this site as well as apples on the traps. It's muskrat #1. I have not tried a gland lure.

Do you dig a hole or just set the trap on the edge and run the apple through the trigger wires???

By the way, what king of colony trap??

THanks

no just place the 110 at the waters edge in a stabalizer, you can also put the trap in the water fairly shallow, for colony traps try a square one, those seem to work better for me. yes just run the slice of apple on the trigger wires.

thanks a lot, I like your ides with the 110! I'm goin gto do that this weekend as I have lots of spare 120's and 160's on-hand. I'll have to order the colony traps.

Ducks like apple...............

thanks for the heads up. Luckily I have not spotted a duck on this entire place. There have been some geese sitings, but I have not seen any yet.

i like apples

I like duck.

Parsnips work great and I believe there better than apple or carrots.

Leftler style stabilizers,110 and Cattail roots.
rats often have deep runs out in deep water.
boat and good sun glasses may help you find them?
good luck
bob evans

For a pond set I use Melby style floats with 1.5 sleepy creek ls traps. About a week before the season I'll go to the pond and toss apples that have been cut in half in the pond. As soon as the season is under way no more free apples, I cut them in half and stick them on a nail on top of the float. When they try to climb on "got ya" right on the foot with a longspring, the weight of the trap will pull the rat down and dispatch them quickly and no one can see them one foot under the water. Works for me I've nabbed a pile of rats that way.

I'm baiting right now. Gonna surprise them this weekend. Got a little more alone time with the air rifle yesterday and tweaked it a little. Put on a camo fase mask and rain fly this morning and set up 20' from the edge. Sat still for 1 hour before they came by. Missed 1 (barely-I mean his chin whiskers are probably gone) and got one right in the eye. I'm putting out 120's & 160's tomorrow baited with apples, but I'm going to look into the cat tail roots and parsnips. I'll keep you all updated.

By the way, I did not go with leg hold originally because I did not want the floats to become floating gator buffets. I went with 160's in order to try to keep them on the floats. I'm going on the edges now anyway, I guess it's going to be 6 to one, half-dozen to the other.

I don't have much luck with bait this time of year when catching muskrats. You really have to wait until that first big cold snap; then put out the bait. And the colder it gets the more the bait draws them in.

It can be very frustrating. This time of year I just look for travel ways and pinch points and then put a trap there. Make your own pinch points and runways with a shovel; understanding there are limited areas to get away with this on a golf course. But there are usually some.

If it is in a highly visible area, put the trap on a drowning wire. It is a lot more work but when you catch a rat you can simple reset the trap and replace it in the bed; still attached to the drowning rig. I've had some drowning rigs that produce a rat five out of seven days consistently. No bait.

thanks for the info. THis is all very useful. I know it seems logical to me that bait wouldn't do much good this time of year when they have so much natural forrage. I think it's the only option I have left though. I'm not sure how to make a pinch point in a pond on a golf course. There are one or 2 ponds where there is a little ditch between them. I know I could do it right there. However, I don't know about the regular ponds. THey are manicured right down to the water's edge and there arent many features. It's pretty much a pond in the grass. I'll let you guys know how this turns out nest week. It looks like for now, I'm going to have to keep at them with the air rifle to make any headway.

If you can see fresh feed piles it is simple....

Dig a 9"x11"x18"-24" into the feed bed area so it is flat and stable
Cover the top of the trap using what is available (nothing fancy and not to much cover...I believe they want to see the predators coming while feeding/ yet still be hidden)
Move the feed bed into the trap...
Install some fresh bait of what the were eating
Add a very small amount of Lenons Muskrat lure
Scratch away algae and other debris in the water leading to the trap making a "fresh" clear path to the trap that is set on the edge of the water

Wait..
If you can not see feed beds.....

Shooting is the best thing i have found for summer rats...
Food is every were so there is no reason to go to your set...
Most often they are feeding up under the bank were you can not see...


This also gives you the opportunity to see where the den and Primary feeding areas are located..... so that traps can be placed

That's good info. You're right about them being under the edges. They dig some tunnels right down the edge of the bank, parallel to the water line.

I've been baiting with apples for the last couple of days. I set some traps in the edges of the ponds and baited them with apples. Problem is, all the apples are gone, but the traps aren't tripped. I'm using conibear 120 & 160's. I am having a difficult time even seeing muskrat whereas a couple of months back, when I went for the initial visit, it seems like I saw them at every pond. I have only seen 4 this week and shot 3. I saw another one on sat., but did not have a safe direction.

I had a friend go with me and was telling him that the rats were overly skiddish. I've never ahd them run from me at the mere sight of a human. These rats are super spooky and I have to hide and dress in full camo. As soon as I move or they spot my profile, they're gone. I told my buddy that it was like they had already been shot at. This adds to the level of difficulty getting them to come near me, not to mention there is almost never any cover. Lots of the homeowners were stirring around Sat. morning and we talked to 2 that had been shootng at the rats. We also talked to one of the head grounds keepers that said he had been shooting at them as well. I thought AAARRRRGGGGGHHH! I knew it! These rats have learned that humans are a threat. If I'm not real careful, they split at the first sight of me. I mean, come on folks, give me a break. The problem I'm having with them now is that people have been shooting at them and missing. They need to leave it to someoone who can actually shoot.

These rats are really starting to get the better of me, though it's only been a week. I'm going to make myslef a huge bait pile in one corner of the pong, stick it off jsut like I would a dam set for a beaver and set it up just like a beaver set.

I can't get one in a trap on the float or in the traps at the pond edge. I have blocked all the pinch points with traps and the buggers won't go near them. Is there something going on with them this time of year?

Thanks.

if your not catching them in your traps youve missed some pinch points... your gonna have to get in the water and feel around for their runs and get some 110s. they seem to work better, for me anyway. good luck!

Back when I first went to check out this gig for these people, it was, I think Early May/late April. I had no problem identifying runs. These rats dig holes and when they fall in they move down a few yards and dig another, so there were/are holes everywhere. Back a couple months ago, I could easily see runs coming from the holes they were using. Well, after getting some other quotes, settling on me, then a bunch of him-hawing around and finally getting it in the budget, It was late July before they finally let me get started. Sat. makes 1 week that the traps have been in the water. Not only am I not seeing any rats, I can't tell which holes they are using becuase the carp are spawning like crazy. There are literally fish beds on top of fish beds, erasing all signs of runs on a daily basis. I just started using carrots for bait, and finally had 1 trap tripped this morning and the carrotts missing off of the rest of them. I'm going back this evening to rebait and set my dogs a little lighter.

thanks for all the help. By the way, I'm using 120's and 160's. There are some nutria out there.

heres the million dollar question. once you decide some traps arent connecting do you move them to a different location in the ponds? i have found out that instead of moving the traps but just adding more traps in the pond your gonna get them one way or another..

It must be different in Washington
I find that a "dead" set is a waste of Time for summer rats...

Coon like apples too.

H. Fitzgeraldp-
Welcome to the forum! "The Boss" (Paul Dobbins) has requested that we include our location (at least the state) in our profile. Are you a professional ADC operator (NWCO)? If you have time; please tell us a little bit about yourself and your experiences in the industry. We are all looking for new ideas!!.

Bad PR when the Ladies Golf Club is t ing off at 6.....

What do you mena by "dead set". How do you handle the rats in the summer time. I got to start getting more of the. It's only been a little over a week, but I should have killed more than 3 right? By the way, I'm going to be putting more traps in the ponds. Everywhere I can stick one.

i think VINKE was referring "dead sets" are ones that arent connecting with rats. if the muskrats are super skiddish i would place traps in every hole nook and cranny, that way there is no room for error. thats just me though.

i use to help the federal gove kill rats in a city sewage plant. there was a series of cattail ponds. we incorporated shooting. if thats an option, spotlight at night and look for them swimming across the water and scan the bank. note, their eyes do not shine. so you have to see the actual animal. the light didnt seem to bother most of them. you could get shots from 3 feet to 30 yards..

As requested I will give a message about my trapping. No, I am not a ADC trapper yet. I applyed for my permit three weeks ago. 20 years ago I did some ADC work for the Game Comission. I have aways lived in Pa. I have trapped 53 years now. I am retired and some of you might know,living on a fixed income now days is not good. I am not interested in starting a full time business. My goal is to make mainly farmers and people like me happy so I have a place to fur trap. I learned a lot about PEOPLE when I did ADC work years ago. I plan to be very selective with the jobs I take. My mother had a ADC trapper remove three squirrels from her porch roof and It cost her $250. I would never charge anyone that much money for so little work. As far as this muskrat problem,they are not hard to catch. Dig a fake muskrat den and place a foot trap just inside it. Use a slide wire to drown and hide the muskrat. I don't like or use very many floats. But when I do,they catch muskrats. Just make a tunnel on top of the float. Set a trap at each end. Use use chicken wire and camo cloth to make the tunnel. Drape some weeds over it.
I trapped my skunks in a wire box trap. The trap is inside of a wooden box with a door to be closed and locked after a catch. Now they have special traps for that. I had good luck removing squirrels at times with mink snares. Sunflower seeds or apples in the wire cage traps. As for beaver,just good trapper know how. I have been having real good luck with the grizz traps for coon. I spend as much time in the woods as I can. Henry F.

Mr. Fitzgerald, you and I seem to have something in common. I have also trapped for 53 years and am retired ( which means I still work; just don't get paid for it)
I would have removed those three squirrels from your mother's porch for only $244.00.
If I read this correctly, your aim is to make some extra money by doing ADC work and then lose it all on fur trapping. Why not do ADC work during trapping season too. Then you might really have some extra money!

Mr Winkelman, maybe I didn't explain or it write it correctly but I would do ADC work during the trapping season. I screwed up years ago when I stopped the ADC work and lost several farms that I never got back. Keeping the farmers happy, I may lose a few bucks but gain in the end, really.

Update:

I finally figured out that the best way to catch these critters this time of year is to get them hooked on the bait before I hit the pond with the floats. Granted, one rat makes a lot of holes and there always looks like there are more rats in a pond than there are, but I have learned to discriminate between old and new muskrat sign so I can say for sure wether or not they have been working a pond recently. When I find fresh sign, I bait the pond with carrots for about a week before I put the floats in. When I put the floats in, I put carrots on the trigger wires and around the edges of the floats. At this point, the only place to get carrots is on the float. They eat the ones around the edges of the float, then crawl in to get the ones on the traps and KABLAM!-it's over. I don't remember who suggested carrots, but thanks for the tip. Baiting the ponds in advanve with the carrots has really helped up my take. It's been 4 weeks now and I've taken 18 rats. About half of them with the traps and the other half with the rifle. Another good thing about baiting the pond for a week or so before trapping is that if there are rats in the pond, the carrots will be gone from the first day and every day after that. If there are no rats, the carrots will sit all week. This is a good way to tell which ponds currently have rats and which do not.

I'm going to be wrapping up this job in about 6 more weeks (5 after this one) and I'm pretty sure I've taken everything in every pond I've trapped so far, with the exception of one that jsut won't go near a trap or sit still long enough for me to squeeze the slack out of the trigger. He's been shot at a lot by the residents and I can't seem to get him still long enough for the shot. Other than him, the carrot scheme has been working brilliantly. Once I wrap this up, the customer has agreed to have me come back in next winter for a follow up. THanks for all the help.

awesome man!

Just ordered some #1 longsprings with the guard. I caught a really small rat yesterday that had slipped through and left hair on all the traps and stolen all the bait on them excpet for the last one, which got him. I have been catching them on the floats with the conibears, but the last 2 (one in each pond I'm trapping now) just keep taking the bait. The good news is they are still taking it, both from the floats and some I put back out around the edges yesterday. I'm going to keep them feeding on the edges and get the leg-holds in there to clean up these last 2. Any tips for using the footholds? This will be my first time...

We did a podcast not long ago with "Jonesie" here and his phone # is at the beginning and I am sure he, Ron Jones would be happy to answer any questions you may have on Muskrat trapping since he said he would or just listen to the podcast.

Link to the podcast for those who missed it . My thanks to everyone and their show of support.

http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/audioPop.jsp?episodeId=252598&cmd=apop

Actually, this is going pretty well now. I still have a couple of ponds where they are wise to the traps, but I have caught 9 this week on the floats. Had a triple on one float the other day. I have found that pre-baiting with carrots is very important. Also I have found that setting the dogs loose produces more catches. The rats can eat the carrots right off the triggers when they are set tight. Setting them loose makes them swing. When that happens, the rats have to push against the carrot or attempt to pull it to them with their paws to get a bite out of it. When this happens-KABLAM! Thanks for all the help with this guys. I'm going to attempt to post some pics of soeo of this stuff before I stop for the year.

Still catching these rats by the dozens. The carrots work great. Anyone who is trying to do this, here are the basics.

1.) Place carrots around pond edge and pre-bait for 2-3days. Cut up pieces of the carrots and place them about every 10-20 feet in both directions from where you intend to place the float. Turtles will get some of them, so make sure there's enough so that the rats will get some too.

2.) Put the carrots on the trip wires, then bend the bottoms of the wires out. Sometimes, a rat can eat the carrot right off the trip wire. Then, they'll try to sneak by it to get to the other carrots on the float. Make sure to push the carrot at least 1/2 way up the wires then bend them out. Most of the time when I catch a rat on these floats, the carrot was alreay gone when they tripped the trap, trying to go on through.

3.) Make sure the carrot is big. Bait the trip wire with a carrot that is pretty big in diameter. I have found carrots as big as your thumb work best. It's harder for them to get their teetch around a larger diameter carrot. This makes them have to push on it or grab it with their paws toget a bite. Which brings us to #4.

4.) Make sure the dog is set VERY loose. You want the trip wires to wiggle a lot. If you set the dog all the way down, they can just eat the carrot right off. The dog will hold the wires tight enough that they can clean the carrot off without moving the tripwires at all. Setting the dog very loose combined with a carrot as big aroung as your thumb will make it difficult for them to bite it. With the big carrot and the wires free to wiggle, everytime they try to take a bite, the carrot just moves away from thier teeth. This means that they either have to push against it hard or grab it with thier paw to take a bite. This makes all the difference inthe world between catching them or not. Traps that are set tight will be cleaned every night for weeks without a catch. Plus, tight set triggers allow them to pass by more easily. They can slink past the trap and if they do bump the trigger wire a little, a tight set dog will hold it there without tripping.

5.) Use 160's. I'm glad I went with the 160's as opposed to the 120's I started to use. The rats see a bigger opening and thing they can go through. Set the dog light and remember to bend the trip wires after installing the carrot. Even if they do get the carrot, they won't be able to get through the trap without setting it off.

6.) If you have to have covered floats, like I had to have in this situation, make sure you place carrot pieces along the outer edges of the float for them to see. You want to advertise. If you pre-baited the pond as described, the rats will actaully stat looking for these little orange pieces everywhere. Seeing them aroung the outer edges of a covered float brings them right on over. Sure, they get a few free pieces, but muskrat nature demands that they eat them all. Once, they are in the float, they have to try to eat every piece they find. One of the traps WILL get them.

7.) There are 4 runs on my floats. I find that leaving one open with no trap gets them in a lot better. It gives them a way into the cover the float provides. They feel safer and will stay longer, giving you a better shot at catching them.

8.) Covered floats work great for the summer. Keeps scavenger birds from landing on the float and keeps the rats out of the water where turtle can't get to them. Most of the time, the turtles won't crawl into the floats. I've only had 2 that had a partially eaten tail and one with a partially eaten nose.

Thanks for all the help with this. I thought since you guys have been such a big help, it was only fitting that I share some of the small tips I have discovered that made the difference between catching and missing. I will post some pics sometime soon for you all so you can see in more detail how I'm doing this. Thanks for sharing your invaluable knowledge of trapping with a newbie.

Just ordered a new battery for my wife's digi camera yesterday. Soon as it comes in, I'll start posting pics of this job. Stay tuned.

roger, standing by for pictures.

I will try to post a picture later of a "winged" colony trap.
It's worked for me at wide channels.

LT GREY-
Although that one is short; it is another good example of the usefullness of a drift fence.

Yes, LA , got that idea from you in a roundabout way!

Heck of a great idea....me likey.

I uses these when a den set or channel, is too wide for a standaed colony trap.

O.K. ladies and gents, as promised, here are some pics of the job I'm working on. Since you guys have been so helpful, I felt like you might want to see some of the results.

Here are some pics of the damage typically seen around the golf course pond edges. If you get a job like this and don't see this in a pond, keep moving to the next one.

Fresh damage. Notice the slick is black, all the grass roots are gone and it looks wet, mostly because it was visited in the last 12 hours.



This damage is a couple of weeks old. Notice the roots are actually coming back. You can judge the age of the damage in this manner. Next step, the roots will start shooting off blades of grass.



Here is some older damage. Notice the roots are actually starting to shoot little blades of grass. This spot is actually large enough to lie down in.



This is pretty typical, especially where there is more of a rolling hill into the water. The rats burrow a hole up onto the hill, then eat a around the hole in a circular shape, staying close to the hole for a quick escape. As the circle becaomes too large for the rats to stay close to the hole, they become uncomfortable with being so exposed out in the open that they abandon the hole and start a new one.



Thats' how it winds up looking like this. I caught 5 rats in this pond. You can leave a bushel of carrots on the edge of this pond now and they'll spoil before anything eats them. The rats are history...for now.



More damage. I thought you guys might like to see a few more pics in that it might help you more esily identify the target critter when quoting these jobs. Remember, our area biologist actually couldn't tell them wether this was muskrat or nutria damage.















This is how it typically starts. First, they mow down the grass to get to the tasty roots. They don't actaully eat teh grass. Usually, it's piled up right in the edge of the water where they're working. They're after the roots. Remember, pre-bait the pond with carrots 2 days or so before inserting the traps. Be generous. They can't get enough of the stuff!



Here's a float with a rat on it. Notice how it's dipping int the water on the back side.



Not only will the float tip to one side, but with this float design using conibears, you can tell which traps have been tripped becuase the srping stick out of the sides of the runs.



Here's the money shot you have all been waiting for-I don't think this muskrat is as excited about my float design as I am. This is # 10 in this pond. These traps in this pond catch 1 every day, sometimes 2 or 3.



All baited up and ready to rock 'n' roll. Make sure to set the trigger VERY light. You want it to wiggle so he either has to push on it or grab it with his paw to take a bite. If you set the trigger tight, they can eat the carrot right off.



Make sure there is plenty of bait around the float so they can see it. Remember, you have been baiting them for a couple of days when the floats go in. They are looknig and smelling for that orange muskrat crack! This one is still sagging a bit form being tipped in that direction from the wieght of the rat. Don't worry, the sun will dry it out and it will float back up properly. However, if you have a long rainy, windy spell, taking the flaots out for a few days to dry is always an option. You can add more floatation, but I like them to dip a little when they catch a rat so I think I have the right amount on mine.



Speaking of floatation...



This is a different rat. This is actually the first rat I caught on the floats. Thanks be to whomever suggested the carrots. I have caught about 50 rats and am only 3/4 of the way through this job! The resident who took this picture was so happy, he actually invited me into his home for a few beers!!!



I've had a few doubles and tripples with these floats, but didn't have the camera when it happened. We just got a new battery for it off of the internet. Next time I get a double or tripple, I'll try to get a pic and post it up. By the way, I only put 3 traps on the float so as to give them one access point to get on it. I think they like it being covered because they feel more secure.

Up to 11 in this pond now. They're getting scairce.

I took a "Man Tracking Course" that Joel Harden (one of the famous retired border patrol trackers)puts on for law enforcement and search and rescue........ Best money I ever spent for learning to Look!!!!

Aging sign is one of the most important thing one should learn when trapping adc......

Do they turn colors in the fall/winter? The last couple I caught were almost black.

beavernator,
Could I get you to send me some measurements and layout of your floats. I live in Currituck and think they would work great here too. Never seen them with bodygrips, just 1.5's on them. I'd like to build a couple for rats and a bigger one with 220's for our nutrea.

Where in NC do you live?

Thanking you in advance,

Leary Sink
Tarheel Wildlife Damage Control
P.O. Box 55
Powells Point, N.C. 27966
tarheelwildlifedamagecontrol@aginet.com
252-573-8639