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#1369850 - 06/04/09 09:39 PM Re: Interestin bat scenario ............ [Re: Buzzard]
Paul Winkelmann Offline
trapper

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1081
Loc: mequon, wisconsin
Buzzard, I have a really good doctor, who is also a customer. Having said that, it wouldn't surprise me if everyone on this site knew more about rabies than he does.

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#1369889 - 06/04/09 09:57 PM Re: Interestin bat scenario ............ [Re: Paul Winkelmann]
Buzzard Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 1818
Loc: North Central North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Paul Winkelmann
Buzzard, I have a really good doctor, who is also a customer. Having said that, it wouldn't surprise me if everyone on this site knew more about rabies than he does.


I gotta grand that says your correct........double or nuthin anyone ?

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#1369899 - 06/04/09 10:07 PM Re: Interestin bat scenario ............ [Re: Buzzard]
Ron Scheller Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 1051
Loc: Mt. Olive, IL
Not trying to turn this into a doctor-bashing thread..... but most cases of Histoplasmosis are mis-diagnosed. Victims end up in the hospital REALLY SICK before enough testing is done to determine what they have. Typically diagnosed as a flu.
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Ron Scheller
www.thebatguy.com

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#1369909 - 06/04/09 10:16 PM Re: Interestin bat scenario ............ [Re: Ron Scheller]
Ron Scheller Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 1051
Loc: Mt. Olive, IL
Okay.... back to the original direction of the thread. Listened to a 30 minute segment on KTRS St. Louis 550 AM today, and the host had a story about he and his wife finding a bat (or 2) in their home a couple nights ago. One guest was the safety director for STL public health.... she plugged their "take care of removing a bat in the house" service, along with their phone number. NEVER mentioned that those people should have their homes inspected. Next, a top pest control company owner.... says most bats in homes probably flew in an open door when the owners were bringing in groceries or had the door open for a minute. And we wonder why people have no idea what to do??? The host was left with the impression that since he has an old home, he will have to live with bats forever. Amazing.
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Ron Scheller
www.thebatguy.com

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#1370230 - 06/05/09 09:18 AM Re: Interestin bat scenario ............ [Re: Buzzard]
Woofman Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/23/07
Posts: 1186
Loc: Connecticut
Does health insurance ever cover pre-exposure shots?

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#1370758 - 06/05/09 05:15 PM Re: Interestin bat scenario ............ [Re: DAVE SALYS-cwcp]
Bruce T Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 14216
Loc: Northern Maine.
Originally Posted By: DAVE SALYS-cwcp
I hope I never have to make this decision but here in MT I can do anything I want,we have no bat laws.


Same here in Maine as well.
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#1402155 - 07/02/09 03:57 PM Re: Interestin bat scenario ............ [Re: Bruce T]
LT GREY Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/09/07
Posts: 14630
Loc: Central Ohio
Pretty good info.

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#1402454 - 07/02/09 07:39 PM Re: Interestin bat scenario ............ [Re: LT GREY]
Bob Jameson Offline

trapper

Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 2193
Loc: SW Pa
One thing I havent seen written on this post is this.I fully understand the concern and or feel the need to evict a colony or a maternal colony during pup rearing time. However it may be apparent that some, all or many dont fully understand what the juveniles do once the female doesnt return to the roost site to nurse the young 12-24 hours after exclusion has taken place.

Meaning, depending on the maturity (age) of the juvenile bats, if they are very mobile at the point of exclusion, just new borns a week or less old,or mid way thru their developmental stages.If the pups are older and the adult fails to return the pups will begin a search for the female to nurse.

If they are within a week or less in maturity the pups will most likey perish without incident in the roost area as a result of limited mobility due to age and dehydration.However, if the maturity of the pups is two weeks or greater they are quite mobile now and crawl very efficiently.

Therefore the falsehood of thinking the exposure threat of the adults has been removed is now short lived.

I have seen the result of maternal bat colony evictions performed during different phases of pup development over my years in business. Consumers attempting to do their own work via internet information, a result of taking advice from another individual and even some evictions done by so called professionals in the field that obviously had little bat work knowledge.

The exodus of the pups at the age that allows their movements into various areas of the living space is a potential high risk situation. Whether in the attic space, soffit area, ceiling areas, wall voids or even those roosting in chimneys can potentially make entry into living spaces in many such circumstances.

If a positive case of rabies is establilshed from a specific bat and colony site the chances of others is very possible and likely.Understanding that bats are a very social creature and they are self grooming creatures as well as grooming other bats and their pups.

Passing the virus to other bats throught their saliva via grooming, mating or general social interaction and transmitting the virus to their bats pup(s) if it is in fact a female is very possible.

Meaning now the abandoned pups and the pup(s) of the infected bat are now moving around and instinctively following air flow areas. Some or many pups finding breaches in the ceiling, walls, baseboards and basement exterior and interior wall void areas.

Now you have created a potential risk by exposing the same family to yet another potential bat problem. My point is, there is not a definitive end to the potential problem once the maternal adults are excluded.

I have found bat pups in shoes, waders,laundry baskets,jacket pockets,random clothing found on the floor, in beds,sofas and chairs to name a few situations.These young mobile bats have teeth and can bite just out of shear reaction or defensive behavior. Kids pick them up out of curiosity, dogs find interest and cats as well not to mention the stressing of the human occupants. It is the ones that you dont expect that cause the exposure issues with everyone.

If forced through circumstances to do a mid season exclusion I explain the situation to the client. What may occur as a result of the exclusion during this time period. They must sign off on the understanding of my concerns and if they insist upon pursuing the project I try to protect myself as a result of such an incident occuring as this could be a potential high risk liability situation.

Even with such anticipated problems and attempting to protect my business, with the law and lawyers as we have today most likely the consumers could still seek some type of settlement if they felt they would like to pursue the matter.

This topic has been discussed in the past and I failed to share my experience and thoughts. Now that I have spoken my peace you can all take it with a grain of salt and hopefully you will proceed and your work will be without issue when doing maternal exclusions.
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www.jamesonsultrablend.com

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#1402472 - 07/02/09 07:49 PM Re: Interestin bat scenario ............ [Re: Bob Jameson]
North Country Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 152
Loc: Minnesota
Great posts guys.


Troy


Edited by North Country (07/02/09 10:52 PM)
_________________________
Troy Orr

Bad decisions make good stories!

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#1402497 - 07/02/09 08:07 PM Re: Interestin bat scenario ............ [Re: Bob Jameson]
LAtrapper Offline

"Professor"

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 2255
Loc: Lower Alabama (Daleville)
Thank you! I much prefer an interior sealing to prevent entry into the living area during the pup rearing season. Even without eviction of the adults I have seen many pups seeking cooler areas; usually outside the main entrance. Sometimes folks do not want to wait though. In those instances, I do the same as you said.

I still cannot find any reliable reference to the increased incidence of rabies being transmitted to other members of a colony from which a rabid bat was identified. Can you provide any information (links) on this subject?
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Ron Fry

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#1402710 - 07/02/09 11:07 PM Re: Interestin bat scenario ............ [Re: LAtrapper]
Vinke Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 4156
Loc: Pacific Northwest WA
Quote:
Thank you! I much prefer an interior sealing to prevent entry into the living area during the pup rearing season



I was wondering if you guys were ever going to get to it.....
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#1402753 - 07/03/09 12:53 AM Re: Interestin bat scenario ............ [Re: Vinke]
NWMOhunter Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/24/06
Posts: 487
Loc: Savannah, MO
As far as what was said earlier about aerosol exposure to rabies, it would take a tremendous bat population to produce the amount of aerosolized amount of saliva and keep it in such an enclosed area that would overwhelm the victim. With the vents and air flow in an attic, I doubt there would be the combination of a large population and lack of air flow in a home situation like that could be in a cave to produce the aerosol exposure. I'm not saying it's impossible, but very unlikely.

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#1402845 - 07/03/09 08:45 AM Re: Interestin bat scenario ............ [Re: NWMOhunter]
Bob Jameson Offline

trapper

Registered: 12/25/06
Posts: 2193
Loc: SW Pa
I dont know if aerobic virus transfer is a real fact or not. However I have heard of strong evidence of the potential if the concentration is great enough in volume in an enclosed close proximity area.

As far as animal to animal transfer in a colony that is a fact as a result of direct transmission contact.
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