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#1325523 - 04/29/09 09:44 AM Re: Canine Trapping ~ Dirthole ~ Bait v. No bait [Re: j lord]
Canine Slayer Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 639
Loc: Caseville, Mi
After the snow flies, I think you get alot better responses to bait in a dirthole. Canines are looking for food because the availability just isn't there. There's a definate change in diet during the colder months. Asa's line of "ALL CALL LURES" seems to have all the right stuff in it for late season trapping. Although, I have to admit, I didn't think it was strong enough for late season/below zero trapping i was soon proven wrong.

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#1325640 - 04/29/09 11:37 AM Re: Canine Trapping ~ Dirthole ~ Bait v. No bait [Re: Canine Slayer]
Ohio Andy Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 3802
Loc: Ohio
Thanks Canine Slayer for adding another dimension to this.
This could be a two parter... early season and late season when considering bait use.

Is it November 10th yet?



Edited by Ohio Andy (04/29/09 11:38 AM)
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Andy

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#1325683 - 04/29/09 12:07 PM Re: Canine Trapping ~ Dirthole ~ Bait v. No bait [Re: Ohio Andy]
beachcomber13 Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/17/07
Posts: 3904
Loc: Port Jervis, NY
I agree with the early and late season bait use idea. Where I live, Fall is a time of plenty. Urine and curiousity lures work well. By early December, heck, this year it was still early November, our ground is covered in a foot of snow. Now is when food gets scarce and the canines are always hunting.

I prefer using whole deer(roadkill)and beaver carcusses. Make a few sets in the surrounding area of each carcuss.

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#1325701 - 04/29/09 12:15 PM Re: Canine Trapping ~ Dirthole ~ Bait v. No bait [Re: beachcomber13]
Ohio Andy Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 3802
Loc: Ohio
Now Beachcomber13, i would call that a bait station, not necessarily baiting the hole on a dirthole... sorry to split hairs. When making your sets around the bait station, do you bait the hole if it is a dirt hole set or do you mainly use flat sets and scent posts?
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Andy

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#1325714 - 04/29/09 12:29 PM Re: Canine Trapping ~ Dirthole ~ Bait v. No bait [Re: Ohio Andy]
LT GREY Offline
trapper

Registered: 04/09/07
Posts: 16167
Loc: Central Ohio
When I used to live market trap, I used lots of bait in what I call, a 'sucker set".

I use bait, because I make and have lots of it...and I pre-bait at times.

Like Billfrank, I have caught furbears with an empty hole by being on location and having sight appeal!

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#1325889 - 04/29/09 03:28 PM Re: Canine Trapping ~ Dirthole ~ Bait v. No bait [Re: Canine Slayer]
Blackdog Offline
trapper

Registered: 07/31/07
Posts: 6079
Loc: Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: Canine Slayer
After the snow flies, I think you get alot better responses to bait in a dirthole.


Thats the way i roll!
_________________________
Just ask your mommy...

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#1326056 - 04/29/09 05:57 PM Re: Canine Trapping ~ Dirthole ~ Bait v. No bait [Re: Ohio Andy]
Bob Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/09/07
Posts: 495
Loc: Eastern Mt, 26 yrs old
I've only ever used homemade lure, as we are not allowed to use exposed bait in Nevada, and to me, bait that is hidden from sight just becomes lure anyways cause all it is is a smell eminating from a certain spot, and if you've done things right the coyote will be wearing a bracelett before he gets a chance to mess around and get it uncovered.
_________________________
"I have two guns, one for each of ya."

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#1326297 - 04/29/09 08:44 PM Re: Canine Trapping ~ Dirthole ~ Bait v. No bait [Re: Bob]
Jonathan Offline
"Wilson"

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 7902
Loc: Northwestern New York(Elder)
I do not use "prepared bait" at dirt hole sets for red fox. I had always thought and concluded that a bait innoculated with an assortment of ingredients in the formulation essentially made it a lure as opposed to a possible food source, no matter the base for it, masking the natural flavor that might be inviting. I had always kind of wondered about this, and Asa clarified it for me.

On the other hand, when using fresh, frozen mice on occasion in a dirt hole set made in a hay stubble field, then it was "bait."

My mentor in the early 1950's never used prepared bait as such, only a minimal assortment of liquid lures - almost always a gland based lure in conjunction with a "sweet" lure that I have struggled to duplicate. The only bait Mark ever used was a dead mouse once in awhile.

I might add, Mark showed me how to make dirt hole variations with nothing more than fresh dirt as the main attractant and "lure," standing alone.

A most interesting and refreshing thread. I continue to never cease learning from the generosity in the shared experiences by members here. Thank you.

Jonathan
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Jonathan
Basic Camera Gear: Canon EOS 50D with Canon EF 10-20mm, EF 28-135mm and EF 100-400mm lenses; Dutch Hill tripod with Wimberly Gimbal head.



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#1326369 - 04/29/09 09:20 PM Re: Canine Trapping ~ Dirthole ~ Bait v. No bait [Re: ]
Jonathan Offline
"Wilson"

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 7902
Loc: Northwestern New York(Elder)
Denny, Both lured and plain sets are on the "messy" side of the scale. After bedding and sifting, the neat stage, I made a little claw tool out of a small, 3-tined frog spear. I drag dirt out of the hole to junk it up to make it appear as natural as possible. Nothing fancy - as crude looking as I can make it.

Jonathan
_________________________
Jonathan
Basic Camera Gear: Canon EOS 50D with Canon EF 10-20mm, EF 28-135mm and EF 100-400mm lenses; Dutch Hill tripod with Wimberly Gimbal head.



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#1326739 - 04/30/09 08:29 AM Re: Canine Trapping ~ Dirthole ~ Bait v. No bait [Re: upstateNY]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 5959
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
Personally from my experiences, I think urine is always an added asset at a dirthole set or any set. Urine is not necessary by any means but one more calling for the canine to focus on and possibly serve as a suspicion remover. I know from experience and testing that urine can not compromise the set in any way. Asa

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#1326790 - 04/30/09 09:23 AM Re: Canine Trapping ~ Dirthole ~ Bait v. No bait [Re: upstateNY]
Jonathan Offline
"Wilson"

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 7902
Loc: Northwestern New York(Elder)
Upstate, When you have faculty members here of the caliber of Asa Lenon's and others, you know that Trapperman University is a real school. I know a bunch more about this combination of choices than I did two days ago.

Jonathan
_________________________
Jonathan
Basic Camera Gear: Canon EOS 50D with Canon EF 10-20mm, EF 28-135mm and EF 100-400mm lenses; Dutch Hill tripod with Wimberly Gimbal head.



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#1326797 - 04/30/09 09:32 AM Re: Canine Trapping ~ Dirthole ~ Bait v. No bait [Re: Jonathan]
Ohio Andy Offline
trapper

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 3802
Loc: Ohio
This thread turned into what i had hoped it would. As with anything, there really is no right or wrong way. Even BillFrank said he does not use bait at 80% of his sets. What about the other 20%? Why only 20%? It works for him and his experience tells him when and where to use bait or not.

There are some really good trappers, or as Jonathan says, faculty members, that use different methods to acheive the same goal of a foot squarely on the trap pan. That leaves us students to learn what we can from the faculty and apply that to our own experiences in the field.

One thing that i have learned from this thread is that i need to keep better notes on my sets and lure / bait / urine usage. Study the notes and track the results and in the end, i may become a better trapper.

Again thank you to those who have shared their knowledge and experiences with those of us still learning, which should be all of us!
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Andy

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#1326818 - 04/30/09 09:53 AM Re: Canine Trapping ~ Dirthole ~ Bait v. No bait [Re: Ohio Andy]
Asa Lenon Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 5959
Loc: Gulliver, Michigan
I think one can overdo urine at sets by spraying or saturating sets creating an unnatural appearing situation and perhaps cause a set avoidance. When I apply urine it is only a small squirt on the backing that would be the equivalent amount a fox or coyote would mark a spot with. Asa

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